Bongo Fury

haydn callow wrote:You say in a post above .."I ended up with a LITTLE too much coolant in the tank" in a later post you say " it was FULL to the brim and dripping down".. from cold to hot the coolant in the tank only expands about 1.5 cms up the tank...

To be fair, I was probably "above the flange" post-coolant addition & bleed.

haydn callow wrote:so what happened to you was NOT normal. Either you had a large air lock in the cooling system or somthing more sinister is going on.
A low coolant alarm would not have pre warned you of this happening. A Hi alarm "add on" would have warned you before a temp alarm.

And, to be honest, if/when I do get one, it'll be the full kit (no point in half measures).

haydn callow wrote:However if the damage has been done (head gasket or head) and you have never (to your knowledge) either lost coolant or overheated because of lost coolant or just overheated then it seems this could be a case of a head/gasket just expiring.

haydn callow wrote:Just reread the start of this topic....I see you did overheat....I fear the worst.

Yes, have had three occurrences of overheating (which I'm certain were due to airlock, as no water moving into pipes/rad/header in the front of the Bongo).

I'm pretty certain the head/gasket are OK (having, when this first happened, being convinced my Bongo was subsequently dead). Not a single sign of exhaust fumes in the coolant (tested by garage with their sniffer, and by me with a chemical test), nor fluid in the oil (though, to be fair here, oil is fairly new so this could still be at the "invisible" stage), no steam from exhaust nor loss of fluid from cooling system (outside of the overheating episodes mentioned previously) and no trouble over the last 400 or so miles (I don't consider this most recent coolant push-out as trouble, as it was kind-of expected), no hydrolic lock, etc, etc.

If there's other evidence I can check for (barring removing the head!) interested to know what it is so I can check for it.

would be worth having one last good bleed.
You say you think it could have been a air lock....how would that amount of air get in in the first place ??
Bongo's are still a mystery !! mind of their own

GICarey wrote:RE the sacvenger fan vs ECU concerns - what's the major concern, is it sending electrical spikes the wrong way into the ECU? if so, wouldn't some kind of diode help protect against this?

Yes I think that's the concern. But since I believe (from what has been said) that the ECU computing side doesn't operate on 12v then I can only conclude it performs a kind of intelligent relay function and - like a relay - will thus have a separate 12v power side through which the supply of juice to the appliance (fan) is switched. Its hard to see then how you could send a spike to the ECU sensor/computing side of things. I use a 12v supply direct to the scav. fan from the battery via a fuse and switch (I don't even use a relay, though I should really). The only thing I can think that would cause a problem is if I had reversed +ve and -ve (in which case the fan would run backwards or not at all? ). In that case, if the ECU switched its 12v supply to the fan in, it'd create a short circuit!

However, given that those more knowleadgeable than me have voiced their concerns, I'm not about to promote my practices others. If they feel adventurous like me then fine!

haydn callow wrote:would be worth having one last good bleed.

It would appear these Bongos of ours can never be over-bled

haydn callow wrote:You say you think it could have been a air lock....how would that amount of air get in in the first place ??
Bongo's are still a mystery !! mind of their own

My number one suspect (despite their repeated denials) is the mechanics in the garage, as the first occurrence of the issue was within 4 miles of their performing a bit of work on the old bus (MOT & related repairs [rear diff seal, brake pads, rear anti-roll bushes], Cambelt change and service). I can only imagine they took a pipe off, either purposefully or accidentally, and didn't bleed it out properly afterwards.

Subsequent overheats appear to be due to them not bleeding it properly (after first return trip, despite provision of written instructions, the bleed pipe hadn't been moved; after the 2nd it had been, and i think they got most of it, but not all. Eventually DIY'd it to resolve & (so far) been fine since). *fingers crossed*.


Once again, appear to have been forced to learn more than I wanted to know about a mechanical device due to a "professionals" lack of knowledge/skill/common sense (add it to the increasingly long list in this modern culture of "break it and chuck it" - god, I'm only 31....).

GICarey wrote:Once again, appear to have been forced to learn more than I wanted to know about a mechanical device due to a "professionals" lack of knowledge/skill/common sense (add it to the increasingly long list in this modern culture of "break it and chuck it" - god, I'm only 31....).

How true. A lot of 'professionals', including mechanics can - in my experience - have a problem with any layperson challenging their opinion. It took me several years of being polite and deferential about, and being fobbed off over, what I reckoned was classic symptoms of a seized open thermostat in a car of mine before I got fed up and said JFDI (just effing do it). Problem solved, lesson learned.

Look on the bright side. You're only 31 and are acquiring a useful bit of savvy i.e. a Bongo owner with an interested mind may become a much better diagnostician of their car than all but the best specialist mechanic (or those who have the good judgement to know what they don't know and know where to get it as Dr Johnson once famously said)

Cheers Mike,

Last car I really understood the workings of was my first car, a Citroen Dyane 6 (2CV derivative), bought without a floorpan (rusted out), and a non running engine for £130, father and I stripped & rebuilt the engine, welded in a new floor, did a ton of bodywork, resprayed, etc, etc, I knew that car inside out, and the beauty lasted me 5 years before I left uni and had to get something more sensible for work (a Renault Clio Diesel, and then a Pug 406 (lovely car IMO), Clio was the same year as the Bongo actually...)

G.

Well, Deja-Vu...

So, after last weekends 3 x 100 mile and 2 x 20 mile trips, my confidence in the Bongo was rebuilding.

It's sat on the driveway (which, FWIW is sloped upwards, bonnet parked up-slope) since Monday afternoon, with just 2 very short journeys to pick the misses up from the station during the week, those journeys not long enough to overheat.

Then, today, tried to drive 15 miles to Hatfield, pulled into petrol station about a mile from home, before motorway, to check all OK (i.e. to check hoses under bonnet warming up) before doing any kind of speed.

Lo-and-behold stone cold, with cold coolant pushing out of the header tank overflow.

G'ah

Nursed the Bongo home again, and she's now cooling off on the driveway, I shall bleed her _AGAIN_, and then we'll try the journey once more, and I'm ocnfident that, once the stat has opened and the bottom hose is warm, we'll be fine again for today, probably until the car has sat for a few days, after which it'll probably do this all again.


What on earth could be wrong?

I know it's common for everyone to jump on "head gasket" when a Bongo has overheated, but, could that really be the root cause of the problems I'm seeing? When the Bongo is running fine, she's fine, anything between 0 and 80mph, for long distances & periods of time, then, when she sits for some time, she'll overheat.

All I can think of is a blockage in the system, either solid or air, probably air as a bleed seems to resolve it. Something letting air into the system slowly when the car is sat cold? Some AAAs required for my UV torch so I can go looking for coolant leaks then!

Anything else?

Time, I think, to get the Bongo recovered to a well known specialist. Recomendations please for one who is likely to be able to resolve this, and at least fairly close to Letchworth, Herts (north London? Cambridge? etc?)

Thanks,

Gav.

Arse,

Went out to bleed the car, opened expansion tank, opened & hung bleed pipe, started engine.

Lot of gurgling, I thought "that seems an unlikely amount", it continued for 30 seconds, so i wandered into the garage, found my block tester, filled with fresh fluid, tested, and lo and behold, my nice blue fluid turned green. Exhaust gasses in the coolant. Head gasket gone.

Damn.

So, question now - was there a tiny head gasket problem which caused the first overheat, but didn't show up in either my tests, or those run by the garage? Or was/is something else wrong to have caused the overheats which have led to the head gasket going.

And I'm left with the dilemma, spend yet more money on the Bongo (having just had new rad, water pump, cambelt and gone through the MOT), or walk away from it, sell it for what I can get with a known head gasket problem, make a fairly significant loss over the year I've had it and buy a normal car.

On the one hand, when the Bongo is working, I adore it, and apart from this issue, it's all in a good state (mechanically sound, engine good, bodywork good (for a 15 year old car). On the other hand, I need to be able to have faith in the car, else i'll never enjoy driving it, going on holidays in it, etc.

Decisions, decisions....

haydn callow wrote:Just reread the start of this topic....I see you did overheat....I fear the worst.

Now you have had everything else (cooling system) replaced ..I would get it fixed and new hoses where old ones still lurk...You will get a better price if you sell and you will have a fully sorted Bongo if you keep....But DO get it taken to one of the WELL KNOWN Bongo garages...Discount trucks may be your nearest but someone will let you know if there is a nearer one.

Thought i'd post this, for those who've not seen a failed head-gasket test before:



A "pass" (no exhaust gases in coolant) should remain the nice deep blue you see on the left, a "fail" will change colour, turning either green (as mine did), or sometimes as far as yellow.

Regards,

Gav.

haydn callow wrote:Just reread the start of this topic....I see you did overheat....I fear the worst.

Shhh you, smarty-pants

On a serious note though, until today, no failed head-gasket test, possible that I was basically "at the very start of it" from the very first overeheat back in mid-April, and that subsequent bleeding has gotten my through until today when it's clearly "gone properly"? Or is it more likely that the initial overheat(s) [not caused by coolant loss] have caused this? Do i need to go and have words with the garage (who shall, of-course, never be touching the Bongo again!)

haydn callow wrote: Now you have had everything else (cooling system) replaced ..I would get it fixed and new hoses where old ones still lurk...You will get a better price if you sell and you will have a fully sorted Bongo if you keep....But DO get it taken to one of the WELL KNOWN Bongo garages...Discount trucks may be your nearest but someone will let you know if there is a nearer one.

Yeah, i think you're probably right. Discount Trucks are Newbury, right? 100 miles away from here (a1(m), m25, m4) - will have to talk to my breakdown recovery folks!

Thanks,

Gav.

Well,

It took me a month to finally decide what to do, but as of an hour or so ago, el Bongo is now on the back of a Breakdown truck and headed for Discount Trucks in Newbury, where it'll be having a replacement engine fitted.

Went out today, before breakdown truck arrived, checked headed tank (no liquid, topped up), and started her up, thinking to turn her around to make loading up easier. Wouldn't start at all now, I suspect enough fluid has found its way into the cylinders, etc, that it's now a non starter, bit of pushing therefore required to load.

Hopefully, in 10 days or sos time, I shall be able to collect & enjoy the van once more!

G.

GICarey wrote:Well,

It took me a month to finally decide what to do, but as of an hour or so ago, el Bongo is now on the back of a Breakdown truck and headed for Discount Trucks in Newbury, where it'll be having a replacement engine fitted.

Went out today, before breakdown truck arrived, checked headed tank (no liquid, topped up), and started her up, thinking to turn her around to make loading up easier. Wouldn't start at all now, I suspect enough fluid has found its way into the cylinders, etc, that it's now a non starter, bit of pushing therefore required to load.

Hopefully, in 10 days or sos time, I shall be able to collect & enjoy the van once more!

G.

You'll no doubt be pursuing the monkeys who cocked it all up in the first place for your money back?
Easy to make a Claim through the Small Claims Court.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/info ... /index.htm

People also issue claims for other reasons, including:

* bad workmanship;
* damage to their property;
* road traffic accidents;
* personal injury;
* goods not supplied; and
* faulty goods

I reckon that 1,2 5 & 6 all apply in your case.