Front crossmember

[mikeonb4c]

Kore wa oikura desuka

I'm a crispy peking duck man myself

[Bongolia]

Roo and others..
Original post
"Doesn't bear thinking about if the front X member were in the condition of that shown in this post.
All of this was quite well hidden under battery tray,mats and sealers. I dont think it would have been picked up without shaker plates and extensive stripping although clearly it had been there for some time."

To clarify the above was relating to the flitch panel corrosion and movement and in answer to the question about the structural importance of the front crossmember from Mike and Roosmiths earlier questions about ball joint like noise.

As to the rest of the body corrosion inner sills rear X member etc, no panels were removed to find this corrosion it was in plain sight once the vehicle was raised in the air. No banging or prodding was needed.

The fixed cover panels and interior were removed later to asses the integrity of the body and its potential for a safe durable repair.

A test station, especially one with shaker plates, who fails to see obvious long standing and dangerous corrosion such as this is a threat to the the motorist who depends on an MOT to ensure their vehicle meets a minimum safety standard not to mention the safety of other road users and the general public.
Had this been an MOT and I had been the examiner I would have logged the corrosion failures as extensive and issued a dangerous to drive tag on the DVSA device.

Roo. I note from the invoices that a brake check was carried out in August, by the same garage, to find the cause of a noise when braking.
Look at the image of the OS front caliper.
Their invoice states that they dismantled both front brakes and could find no fault. Unless you dismantled them subsequently then it would appear that`s how they were given back to you.

I bought this vehicle because Roo had given a detailed and honest,as far as he was aware,statement of the condition of the vehicle.
On arrival for the hand over and discovering Roo was actually BF`s Roosmith I was happy to take the vehicle over on trust.
I am sure that had Roo been aware of the actual condition of the vehicle he would have used that in his original formula and adjusted his price accordingly and had I taken the time to inspect it at the hand over and found the corrosion a corrected value would have been agreed.

Roo. Out of curiosity who was the Bongo specialist who had it for half a day and arrived at the 1500.00ukp figure coz that guy is as potentially as dangerous as the testing station! PM me if you wish.
The first guestimate of 4000.00 ukp for welding and waxing was the correct one.

To quote the *****man (nationality removed for racial stereotyping reasons) when asked for direction by the traveler to his destination, the *****man replied "If I was going there I wouldn't start from here!"

Still having trouble with photo bucket site, I have flitch repair pinned and almost complete now but when I upload them they mix in with the other images so there is no continuity.
I have started another thread called Bongo resto and will shove the update notifications on there if anyone is interested.
The take away container holding the Fertan is an ex Lemon Chicken holding device.

[BongoBongo123]

Err...just popping out to check behind the flaps !

[BongoBongo123]

Aluminium take away containers are good for holding anti rust products.

[Bongolia]

Aluminium take away containers are good for holding anti rust products.

Yeah, well I suppose they wouldn't rust would they.

[BongoBongo123]

Some of it is very accidic (the rust converter type ones) so it can melt plastic containers.

[Bongolia]

Some of it is very accidic (the rust converter type ones) so it can melt plastic containers.

My local Indian take away`s Prawn Phall can melt most things if left in there long enough!
Jokin aside Fertan is very mild and not at all acidic no special protection required although a face mask would be recommended if spraying as you never know.

Yonks ago Lancia had a problem with X members rotting through within a year or two and I am sure this was the product Lancia supplied to treat the affected areas and before welding in new members, smells exactly the same and works like I remember it too. It coats the surface after treatment and that is good enough on its own to leave unprotected for ages, should be waxed over of course.
Seems counter intuitive to wash it out with water but it does leave a coating on the surface that can be painted/waxed directly over.

Lancia also supplied a wax treatment to be applied after welding and that carried an anti oxidant in its formulation, it smelt very sweet and left your skin feeling like a good quality hand cream had been used. Not recommended for the face tho unless doing a B&W minstrel tribute.
That failure by Lancia to treat against corrosion cost them the company in the end.

It may be of interest to others considering treating rust to have a look at the Fertan UK website, bit old fashion by today's standards, no flash or that, but they have PDFs that can be downloaded. They make an interesting read.

[roosmith]

A test station, especially one with shaker plates, who fails to see obvious long standing and dangerous corrosion such as this is a threat to the the motorist who depends on an MOT to ensure their vehicle meets a minimum safety standard not to mention the safety of other road users and the general public.
Had this been an MOT and I had been the examiner I would have logged the corrosion failures as extensive and issued a dangerous to drive tag on the DVSA device. - I'm not too sure if the MOT station we used has shaker plates but if the rest is that obvious, like you say it doesn't really come into it. Me and the other half are appalled that we'd been driving around for thousands of miles, with the kids on-board, oblivious to any of this. I know that an MOT isn't the be-all and end-all of a vehicle's health however you do rely on it to give a good indication

Roo. I note from the invoices that a brake check was carried out in August, by the same garage, to find the cause of a noise when braking.
Look at the image of the OS front caliper.
Their invoice states that they dismantled both front brakes and could find no fault. Unless you dismantled them subsequently then it would appear that`s how they were given back to you. I can't find the picture you say about, so not sure what you've found. It didn't come back after they looked at it, not sure what they left but I'm intrigued?! They were certainly the last ones to touch it, they did this dismantling, then we went on holiday to Cornwall.

I bought this vehicle because Roo had given a detailed and honest,as far as he was aware,statement of the condition of the vehicle.
On arrival for the hand over and discovering Roo was actually BF`s Roosmith I was happy to take the vehicle over on trust.
I am sure that had Roo been aware of the actual condition of the vehicle he would have used that in his original formula and adjusted his price accordingly and had I taken the time to inspect it at the hand over and found the corrosion a corrected value would have been agreed.Thank you for this comment Bongolia. I didn't have the foggiest that anything like this existed and would have never passed it on knowlingly.

Roo. Out of curiosity who was the Bongo specialist who had it for half a day and arrived at the 1500.00ukp figure coz that guy is as potentially as dangerous as the testing station! PM me if you wish.The Bongo specialist didn't inspect it and gave the worse case scenario. He gave £2k for welding and waxoyl, as he assumed the sills, arches and front cross member. When I asked if he could sort out a full resto on everything else too, he never came back to me. I put the other £2k on my £4k estimate, a) because he hadn't inspected it and b) again going worst case, including for all cooling parts (hoses, rad, pump) plus all new belts, new rear matrix pipes, wishbones, brakes, top mounts etc etc. After the no replies, I went to a local bodyshop, who while they aren't specialists have done a few Bongo's. I'm going to contact them later to find exactly what they did to come up with their diagnosis. As you say worrying again that it was missed.
The first guestimate of 4000.00 ukp for welding and waxing was the correct one.

To quote the *****man (nationality removed for racial stereotyping reasons) when asked for direction by the traveler to his destination, the *****man replied "If I was going there I wouldn't start from here!"

Still having trouble with photo bucket site, I have flitch repair pinned and almost complete now but when I upload them they mix in with the other images so there is no continuity.
I have started another thread called Bongo resto and will shove the update notifications on there if anyone is interested.
The take away container holding the Fertan is an ex Lemon Chicken holding device.

[Bongolia]

Hey Roo
Link to PB here not working as I have rearranged the album into folders. I think Chris has got the link to work over on the other topic.
Bongo 4WD refurb.

[roosmith]

Seen it now Bongolia. Is that the shim? How on earth do you even get it to come out the side there? No that definitely wasn't me!

I spoke to the bodyshop yesterday and I started off making it sound like I was thinking of booking it back in, then that I had another quote that was vastly different, so what did theirs actually include for. At that point they got a bit stuttery and said that it was only an estimate that they'd given me and it was based on a basic visual inspection. They couldn't even comment whether that inspection had been on ramps or not.

I will certainly be letting people know in the local area about the service received by both the garages in question. Sorry once again Bongolia, I just had no idea I'd picked such lack lustre garages!

[Bongolia]

Yes mate.
The only way I can think of it being like that is if they forgot to put it in and shoved it in afterwards!
Funny but I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out to me and I had had my head in there for a good couple of hours!
It looks as though it has been kissing the disc so I am wondering if this is the chuffing noise?
I know that seemed to be coming from the N/S but it is not unknown to have the sound tracking across to the other side, tricky things motor vehicles.
Obviously I cannot run it now but will correct and drive before I do anything to the trans and will let you know.
I should be getting the ATF off on Friday, did I read in a previous post you had a spare motor? If yes have you still got it?
I have a sparks in Friday to look at the low voltage to the motors issue and it may be handy to have if its not been binned.

[mikeonb4c]

For what its worth, i had a replacement 2nd hand motor put in mine when the AFT failed. The remedy didn't work for long. Fitting 2 new motors was expensive, but the roof has now worked fine for several years. Doesn't get raised often enough though, which is never ideal.

[Bongolia]

What was the cost of the motors Mike?
Were they new or recon?

[roosmith]

That's a good question Bongolia, I did have a couple of spares, don't remember giving them away however didn't see them when I did the sweep of the garage to give you the parts I had. Let me look at the weekend and I'll come back to you.

[mikeonb4c]

What was the cost of the motors Mike?
Were they new or recon?

Hmmm - can't remember, but not cheap. Maybe £250 the pair? They were new but you raise a good point. I think someone on here did dismantle and clean theirs up. There might be a thread if you search, or even a factsheet.