AirCon Recharge.

[mikexgough]

My aircon was only just cool so went to local Kik Fit for a recharge. Chap at Kwik Fit told me today he couldn't recharge my system as it was empty. To quote 'we don't add gas to the system, we take out the old gas "fix it" and put it back in'. Sounded like b***cks. Suggested I go to an air-con specialist.

I thought 'what the heck', went to Halfrauds and bought a can of gas. The aircon seems much healhier now. Course, if it leaks out then I will have to visit that specialist...

I have used the EZ- Chill cans before.... not on my Bongo though but I guess it will be okay..... I used it on a Pug 406.... the guy asked me to do it for him...It was easy....find the low pressure connector... connect the aerosol with the gauge connected..... start up the engine , switch on A/C and fill.....to the instructions..... see the pressure gauge rise to the correct sector...... jobs a good un..... Has been fine for 2 years.... EZ-Chill contains gas/oil and leak sealer....

[Alacrity]

He is correct.

These systems are filled by weight, so how do you know how much is in there before you start adding? You have to drain the system with a special recovery tool, then charge the system with the required weight of gas. As I mentioned earlier a competent Aircon professional can do it using the sight glass but it is not technically correct.

And yes the gas has changed to a type that is less damaging to the enviroment.

[helen&tony]

Hi
That answers a query that's puzzled me, namely , how did the guy over here know what amount of gas to put in...I showed him the relevant figures, and he indicated that he didn't need to know....he carefully recovered the gas by opening all cocks, and vented in an ecological way into the atmosphere , and recharged by oiling first, and then gassing by guesswork....so, the little window was how he knew...works like a charm still, after a few years...I was thinking of getting a re-charge this year, as it is suggested that up to 14% volume of gas is lost annually under normal circumstances, but I stripped the front heater out a few days ago, and the matrix for the heater had become a felt mat , which I encouraged to disappear with an air-line...guess what....MEGA blast , after first showering me with the dessicated remains of dead wasps ....and as for leaks...yes the air con guys all have a sniffer...most service home aircon as well, so they come to you......and the novel way of testing if the aircon cools in forward airflow????....the garden hose on the rad
Cheers
Helen

[jaylee]

The little window... Is it on the top of part 61-500?? http://www.lushprojects.com/bongopartsm ... 1of02.html

[mikexgough]

the window (sight glass) is on top of the drier bottle...

[mister munkey]

Thanks all so far.

If I can get my head around the present situation it seem thus so far.

1. It was a little low on gas but enough to run the system - hence cold air not very cold.

2. KF machine has vacumed/purged system & filled with half the amount of required gas.

3. When doing self diagnostics the machine has registered a fault as there's not enough gas to pressurise & flagged it up as a "Leak" With only minimal gas replaced this has effectively disabled the fast idle & air-con pump.


So - do I go to another KF gaff but this time give them the right details eg: 960g of gas, or try these cans of wonder stuff & fill it that way . . . .

[dandywarhol]

My aircon was only just cool so went to local Kik Fit for a recharge. Chap at Kwik Fit told me today he couldn't recharge my system as it was empty. To quote 'we don't add gas to the system, we take out the old gas "fix it" and put it back in'. Sounded like b***cks. Suggested I go to an air-con specialist.

I thought 'what the heck', went to Halfrauds and bought a can of gas. The aircon seems much healhier now. Course, if it leaks out then I will have to visit that specialist...

Old gas is recyclable - not all bollocks catzi!

[mikeonb4c]

Thanks all so far.

If I can get my head around the present situation it seem thus so far.

1. It was a little low on gas but enough to run the system - hence cold air not very cold.

2. KF machine has vacumed/purged system & filled with half the amount of required gas.

3. When doing self diagnostics the machine has registered a fault as there's not enough gas to pressurise & flagged it up as a "Leak" With only minimal gas replaced this has effectively disabled the fast idle & air-con pump.


So - do I go to another KF gaff but this time give them the right details eg: 960g of gas, or try these cans of wonder stuff & fill it that way . . . .

Why do I have a little alarm bell saying it could be even more than 960g of gas for the full system (1140g is going round in my head). Probably my brain getting befuddled as usual, but you certainly want to be sure the KF fitter understands just how much it requires.

PS - thought I'd have a search. OK so I was 10g out but:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... aircon+gas and see Vic Swans post (I wonder where Vic is these days ) and 1150g figure.

[lpgimports]

Kwik fit fitters are ok for talking chinese playing piano and dancing, other than that you are better with someone that does less dancing and has an understanding of what is supposed to be going on rather than "the machine said this" kind of guys.

Find a local guy that actually knows A/C the fancy new machines are great on modern and I mean really modern stuff. Little old guy does mine, pulls out a vacuum pump and creates a good vacuum in the system recovering the gas to a waste bottle whilst drinking tea, once it pulls decent vacuum he will leave it drink more tea and after 10-15 mins of it holding a vacuum he will then recharge it this is all done with a set of guages and manifolds etc, its charged initially until pressure starts to come up on his gauges and then engine started, A/C pump will only kick in once pressure rises to required level then it will charge more gas, then all blowers and a/c on full blast and again it will drop pressure as the system starts to work flat out, pressure is the key here he will charge and then monitor pressure and pressure will hold, if it starts to drop off then we will start sniffing about with a sniffer ussually in front and engine bay especially the A/C rad at the front as it gets a battering in the winter from salt and such. He will then drink some more tea and make sure it goes cold enough inside with a thermometer and add gas if the pressure is too low.

Tea is a major factor in any a/c job it seems....

The top up cans are ok if its just a little low on pressure as yours seemed to have been but if they are empty then the cans are no good as you need to vacuum the system before charging.

Paul

[Alacrity]

The little window... Is it on the top of part 61-500?? http://www.lushprojects.com/bongopartsm ... 1of02.html

Yes + it looks like the pressure switch I was talking about is shown there as well.

Kwik fit fitters are ok for talking chinese playing piano and dancing, other than that you are better with someone that does less dancing and has an understanding of what is supposed to be going on rather than "the machine said this" kind of guys.

Find a local guy that actually knows A/C the fancy new machines are great on modern and I mean really modern stuff. Little old guy does mine, pulls out a vacuum pump and creates a good vacuum in the system recovering the gas to a waste bottle whilst drinking tea, once it pulls decent vacuum he will leave it drink more tea and after 10-15 mins of it holding a vacuum he will then recharge it this is all done with a set of guages and manifolds etc, its charged initially until pressure starts to come up on his gauges and then engine started, A/C pump will only kick in once pressure rises to required level then it will charge more gas, then all blowers and a/c on full blast and again it will drop pressure as the system starts to work flat out, pressure is the key here he will charge and then monitor pressure and pressure will hold, if it starts to drop off then we will start sniffing about with a sniffer ussually in front and engine bay especially the A/C rad at the front as it gets a battering in the winter from salt and such. He will then drink some more tea and make sure it goes cold enough inside with a thermometer and add gas if the pressure is too low.

Tea is a major factor in any a/c job it seems....

All correct - that is just how we do it - although I go by weight as I am not experienced enough to do otherwise.

Lots of us keep saying it Mister munkey, forget Kwik fit - no one in their right mind would use them for anything - certainly not a specialist job - USE A SPECIALIST. Simple really.

[mikeonb4c]

Kwik fit fitters are ok for talking chinese playing piano and dancing, other than that you are better with someone that does less dancing and has an understanding of what is supposed to be going on rather than "the machine said this" kind of guys.

Find a local guy that actually knows A/C the fancy new machines are great on modern and I mean really modern stuff. Little old guy does mine, pulls out a vacuum pump and creates a good vacuum in the system recovering the gas to a waste bottle whilst drinking tea, once it pulls decent vacuum he will leave it drink more tea and after 10-15 mins of it holding a vacuum he will then recharge it this is all done with a set of guages and manifolds etc, its charged initially until pressure starts to come up on his gauges and then engine started, A/C pump will only kick in once pressure rises to required level then it will charge more gas, then all blowers and a/c on full blast and again it will drop pressure as the system starts to work flat out, pressure is the key here he will charge and then monitor pressure and pressure will hold, if it starts to drop off then we will start sniffing about with a sniffer ussually in front and engine bay especially the A/C rad at the front as it gets a battering in the winter from salt and such. He will then drink some more tea and make sure it goes cold enough inside with a thermometer and add gas if the pressure is too low.

Tea is a major factor in any a/c job it seems....

The top up cans are ok if its just a little low on pressure as yours seemed to have been but if they are empty then the cans are no good as you need to vacuum the system before charging.

Paul

The history of this needs explaining. Kwikfit offered a no fix no fee service, and that was the sole reason they became attractive to peeps on here. If they top it up and the aircon works fine - you win. If not you don't pay. At that point, if they can't get it to work, you move along and find a specialist. But from my experience, a specialist will charge just to look at a system, and may charge more than Kwikfit to do an ordinary top up. Returning to my experience, I sourced a specialist to check and report on the non-working aircon on my Bongo as a pre-purchase check. He found (contrary to the vendor saying it just needed regassing) that the aircon had a fractured pipe. He charged £50 to tell me that. He then said he couldn't mend it. Intersestingly, the vendor called in a favour with a mate in the refrigeration business and got a new pipe fabricated in 24hrs. 2yrs later, I had a very nice young guy at Kwikfit check it over and he said temp. was reading well and system didn't need regassing (though he could have taken my money off me if he'd wanted).

So a lot of things are not as straighforward as they seem I guess, and even specialists may not tackle all aspects of mending a broken system.

[missfixit70]

Thanks all so far.

If I can get my head around the present situation it seem thus so far.

1. It was a little low on gas but enough to run the system - hence cold air not very cold.

2. KF machine has vacumed/purged system & filled with half the amount of required gas.

3. When doing self diagnostics the machine has registered a fault as there's not enough gas to pressurise & flagged it up as a "Leak" With only minimal gas replaced this has effectively disabled the fast idle & air-con pump.


So - do I go to another KF gaff but this time give them the right details eg: 960g of gas, or try these cans of wonder stuff & fill it that way . . . .

Why do I have a little alarm bell saying it could be even more than 960g of gas for the full system (1140g is going round in my head). Probably my brain getting befuddled as usual, but you certainly want to be sure the KF fitter understands just how much it requires.

PS - thought I'd have a search. OK so I was 10g out but:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... aircon+gas and see Vic Swans post (I wonder where Vic is these days ) and 1150g figure.

The figure I stated was 950g (from the factsheet & many previous posts), just shows how easy it is for chinese whispers to set in
I see the post by Vic say 1150kg - that's a lot of gas I don't know the origin of any of these figures as the a/c isn't in the workshop manual. Can anyone enlighten?
When my system was recharged, it should have taken 700g (system reduced to rear only) but we only managed to get just over 500g in (using the proper method described above), it was a freezing cold day with a vicious wind whipping across, so they're coming back on friday (for nowt - as agreed, we were all standing there freezing our butts off without any more gas going in) now it's a bit warmer to see if it'll take a bit more as the ac doesn't seem to be running quite as cold as it was before.

[mikeonb4c]

Thanks all so far.

If I can get my head around the present situation it seem thus so far.

1. It was a little low on gas but enough to run the system - hence cold air not very cold.

2. KF machine has vacumed/purged system & filled with half the amount of required gas.

3. When doing self diagnostics the machine has registered a fault as there's not enough gas to pressurise & flagged it up as a "Leak" With only minimal gas replaced this has effectively disabled the fast idle & air-con pump.


So - do I go to another KF gaff but this time give them the right details eg: 960g of gas, or try these cans of wonder stuff & fill it that way . . . .

Why do I have a little alarm bell saying it could be even more than 960g of gas for the full system (1140g is going round in my head). Probably my brain getting befuddled as usual, but you certainly want to be sure the KF fitter understands just how much it requires.

PS - thought I'd have a search. OK so I was 10g out but:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... aircon+gas and see Vic Swans post (I wonder where Vic is these days ) and 1150g figure.

The figure I stated was 950g (from the factsheet & many previous posts), just shows how easy it is for chinese whispers to set in
I see the post by Vic say 1150kg - that's a lot of gas I don't know the origin of any of these figures as the a/c isn't in the workshop manual. Can anyone enlighten?
When my system was recharged, it should have taken 700g (system reduced to rear only) but we only managed to get just over 500g in (using the proper method described above), it was a freezing cold day with a vicious wind whipping across, so they're coming back on friday (for nowt - as agreed, we were all standing there freezing our butts off without any more going in) now it's a bit warmer to see if it'll take a bit more as the ac doesn't seem to be running quite as cold as it was before.

I agree. My only objective was to pull up what was said long ago when this debate got started. I don't presume to know what is the right figure. I did imagine though that having too much gas available for charging would not cost much more and would be better than having too little. 950g or thereabouts is the figure I have in my head as the generally quoted one

[mister munkey]

Just an interim update:

Still not found time or finance to deal with this niggle, so I'm enjoying driving a greenhouse rather than a fridge BUT

Since the fast idle speed has been disabled, the usual puff of black smoke on start up has vanished. The tickover - although consistant at around 750rpm feels much lumpier than previously & the normal Constant Flush oil usage of about a litre every thousand miles has diminished to nowt.

Coincidence?

[missfixit70]

How does the fast idle being disabled affect the oil consumption? do you mean the egr?