maybe trouble ahead?????? on start up

[bigdaddycain]

Sounds definitely like a dodgy glow plug fault.

As it only takes 1 to not fully glow properly on a colder morning..

You could try working the glowplugs 2-3 times before you crank it over as this helps..

Yep, i only had one lazy plug which made mine a bugg3r to start...

Hi,I think the problem is,after the engine starts.

Yes, i realize that, but the glowplugs don't cancel completely once the engine has started, they run on a cycle for a while on & off repeatedly till the engine sarts to warm, or maybe just until the throttle is applied? Some have fitted an over-ride switch to switch off the glowplug relay immediately after initial start-up, as the continuous cycle is attributed to short glowplug life.

[Trouble at t'Mill]

Hi Andy.

By additive, I mean one you add to your fuel - make sure it's for diesel!

I've had 'Millers' recommended to me (might have been 'Honest John' in the Saturday Telegraph!), and I certainly know that Miller's products are highly regarded. It'll make sure your injectors and fuel system is cleaned out and working as well as they should. It will also give a slight 'octane' boost to the fuel, and is reckoned to improve performance, economy, reduce emissions etc (though I would call these secondary issues.)

This is completely different to OIL additives. I honestly can't say if any of these do what they promise on the tin. To be frank, if you change the Bongo's oil every 5k miles or so, there's hardly any need for anything else in there, so I personally wouldn't bother.

Your current 'problem' does have all the hallmarks of a failed glow plug. One failed plug won't necessarily make the car more 'difficult' to start (until the weather gets colder still), but it WILL make it tick over very roughly until the cylinder kicks in. Gently increasing the revs WILL tend to make it sound better - the rough running will most obvious at idle.

It has to be one of the easiest engines to work on in this respect - the plugs face you under the driver's seat; simple for a garage to test and replace.

[andyb36]

yes i think its down to a glow plug

i have been looking at the plugs etc

i have spoken to a europart shop and he told me to bring a sample down

easier said than done lol ,,, have to get my bro in law on it ,, just replace all 4 and be done // is it a 4 cylinder ??? or 6

i have no idea ,,, although im ok with electrics lol

but if it get ay worse, thats my 1st port of call

thanks all

andy

[Trouble at t'Mill]

Andy, the diesel is a four cylinder. If you are getting your bro-in-law to do it, then replace all 4!! Once you start the job, doing the rest won't take much longer (tell him!)

Ok, I haven't actually replaced my own yet, but it did strike me as being amazingly accessible when I looked under the driver's seat. (I have a diesel Zafira, but gave up on this job as most of the plugs are behind the engine out of sight, and tucked under the turbo...)

Ebay has plenty for sale - the cheapest being around £30-odd for 4, 'though I can't comment on the quality. But try your local motor factors too - they can sometimes be very reasonable.

[bigdaddycain]

Andy, some are of the opinion that it's ok to just replace the offending plug. I don't follow that train of thought, i class it the same as changing spark plugs,or brake discs, i.e in pairs/sets.

You can test the old plugs on your battery after they have been removed,just to settle your mind that's what the problem was.

The failing plug is the one that takes the longest to glow orange, or doesn't glow at all, or very dimly.

Be careful if testing with battery still on vehicle!

[Steve L]

I wouldn't bother testing them, they are a bit of a faff to get at. Just replace all four because if one has gone you can be sure the others will be soon to follow. I replaced mine last year with some from a local motor factors. They have probably lasted just over 12 months and are now starting to fail again. I have just bought four NGK glow plugs from
http://www.glow-plugs.co.uk/.
They were £34.31 (cant remember whether that was including postage). Mazda Bongo is not listed but the Ford Ranger 2.5 WLT is, Y701J is the one you need. I think the last ones from the motor factors were over £50.

[bigdaddycain]

Hi Steve, i meant for andy to test the old plugs if he so desired after fitting new ones. If he still had the stumbling cold start problem, at least he would know he hasn't wasted his money on new plugs, if one of the old one's was knackered anyway.

[Steve L]

BDC - Sorry about that, you are quite right. That'll teach me to speed read.

[bigdaddycain]

No probs steve,when my plugs were on their way out, i was bcking off the veg oil ratio to about 5%, till it occured to me it may be my plugs at fault!

That's why i checked them after removal, just to make sure i was looking in the right place, and hadn't just binned a completely decent set of plugs.

None of the replacements (regardless of source) seem to last the 10 - 15 years that the original mazda plugs seem to last, that's why i was reluctant to replace them at all...once the originals have gone, they are gone!

[wes 68]

I had one glow plug go & the bongo wasnt happy on cold start at all,chugging & smoking.I tested the voltage getting to the link wire first just to eliminate relay fault or broken wire,12 volts at each plug.Took plugs out & tested them with jump leads,found one not glowing.Down to local factors & got a set for £22,two different lengths of plug available.I didnt have diesel knock but possible symptom.Light glows for 5 secs but plugs stay active for further 5 secs,watch light go out then listen hard & you will hear relay click 5 secs later

[dandywarhol]

Good test and diagnosis wes - an alternative way and rather than removing the plugs is to individually testthem with an ohmeter after removing the feedbar. 1 ohm roughly for a good un - open circuit for a duffer

[michaeln]

Hi, I have the same problem as Andy, but much worse, after an easy first turn start, the lumpy 'misfiring' feeling goes on for several minutes, and can cause several stalls, with a difficult restart each time. this tends to happen on cold, damp mornings, though its not always predictable. i started a thread about this a while ago, but with the warmer (relatively) summer weather and a new battery (old batt had no juice for a second go) I stopped worrying.

It has I have not really thought much about glow plugs, as they are not that old, but have some competing theories, none of which I have any real idea if they are true:

1: Adam, at ADS a very busy Bristol Bongo importer and repairer reckons it is the fuel pump seals- these are worn and shrunk (when cold) and let air into the fuel that is being injected, when engine is warm, joint and seals swell, engine runs smoothly. He wants a flat £250 for replacng them, and I'm reluctant to part with that when there are other possibles. there is a 'how to' sheet in this site, but I'm not that confident and have no facilities.

2. an AA man muttered about the 'fast idle' mechanism.

As I now have to start the van up 10 minutes before I need to get going in the mornings, pray the battery has enough amps fpr all thes starts, and have to resort to some dangerous tactics to keep the revs up for the first few miles (popping into neutral, left foot braking) I really have to do something, starting cheapest first- fuel additive, glow plugs (Can the resistance test be done without removing them?) and then cough up for fuel pump seals.

cough cough splutter splutter

Mike

[dandywarhol]

I've known spurious plugs to fail in only a few months. A friends ADM blueprint plugs have failed in 7 months.

Point 1 - fuel pump seal failure would cause a leak but shouldn't cause airlocks which would affect running. I reckon the 3000 or so PSI of fuel pressure in the secondary fuel system in the pump wouldn't be affected by the seals.

Point 2 - Lift the engine cover at the driver's side, switch on the "ignition" when the engine is cold and wath if the throttle leve moves about 8/10mm for fast idle - you'll see the cable move.

[bigdaddycain]

Good test and diagnosis wes - an alternative way and rather than removing the plugs is to individually testthem with an ohmeter after removing the feedbar. 1 ohm roughly for a good un - open circuit for a duffer

I didn't know that alan...nice one!

[bigdaddycain]

Hi, I have the same problem as Andy, but much worse, after an easy first turn start, the lumpy 'misfiring' feeling goes on for several minutes, and can cause several stalls, with a difficult restart each time. this tends to happen on cold, damp mornings, though its not always predictable. i started a thread about this a while ago, but with the warmer (relatively) summer weather and a new battery (old batt had no juice for a second go) I stopped worrying.

It has I have not really thought much about glow plugs, as they are not that old, but have some competing theories, none of which I have any real idea if they are true:

1: Adam, at ADS a very busy Bristol Bongo importer and repairer reckons it is the fuel pump seals- these are worn and shrunk (when cold) and let air into the fuel that is being injected, when engine is warm, joint and seals swell, engine runs smoothly. He wants a flat £250 for replacng them, and I'm reluctant to part with that when there are other possibles. there is a 'how to' sheet in this site, but I'm not that confident and have no facilities.

2. an AA man muttered about the 'fast idle' mechanism.

As I now have to start the van up 10 minutes before I need to get going in the mornings, pray the battery has enough amps fpr all thes starts, and have to resort to some dangerous tactics to keep the revs up for the first few miles (popping into neutral, left foot braking) I really have to do something, starting cheapest first- fuel additive, glow plugs (Can the resistance test be done without removing them?) and then cough up for fuel pump seals.

cough cough splutter splutter

Mike

PM sent mike.