Utterly Flat Batteries...

[g8dhe]

This is the main problem with remote diagnoses! It can be many things, it helps to discuss possibilities, one in this case being radios, which whilst switched "off" are really only in standby, and incorrectly wired/ designed may infact be drawing significant current
There is only one way of identifying the real cause and that is to start measuring currents and eliminating circuits as the cause.

[cuchillo]

Aint that a fact!

This is the main problem with remote diagnoses! It can be many things, it helps to discuss possibilities, one in this case being radios, which whilst switched "off" are really only in standby, and incorrectly wired/ designed may infact be drawing significant current
There is only one way of identifying the real cause and that is to start measuring currents and eliminating circuits as the cause.

Have spent the morning rummaging around under the dashboard as I noticed that the one of the "aerials" (7 of them stuck around the windscreen and dashboard) from the original Japanese head-unit (which was removed many months ago by me, but the aerials were left behind as I did not want to start pulling trim off) has an active LED. Only noticed it as I was approaching the Bongo from the front after dark recently and wondered what the faint green glow was!

The other thing I noticed was that since the conversion the Bongo no longer greeted me with (and I paraphrase here) "Japanese Car Door Sexercise" each time I started the engine. Looking at the ETC unit I could see another green glow so it is now "live" even when the ignition was switched off.

I guess both were "moved" over to the leisure battery during the conversion.

After a quick search on here (thank goodness for this forum!! ) it seemed that the ETC unit could be safely removed so figured I would get rid of that and at the same time remove the redundant aerials as well.

(I have to say that the area under the dash was not designed for a 20 stone lardy shortass to do much contorting! )

So 3 hours and many mm of shredded skin later, two of the parasitic draws on the leisure battery have been removed (I hope!).

Both the starter and the leisure batteries are still on charge. Tomorrow I'll disconnect them from charge and try and see if I can find where the parasitic draw is coming from.

Stay tunes for more ranting/discoveries and do feel free to chip in with any advise....

[cuchillo]

Now on to looking at the internal fuse box.

This is what the front looks like...


(Fuse #1 is top left.)
I have a tin-top conversion so why is there a 30A fuse at position 12 (2nd row, green) ??

This is what the back of it looks like...


(Fuse #1 bottom left)
Not sure I understand the wiring here. I would have expected matched pairs of wires one coming in and one going out, yet there are only three wires going "in" across the top row (which is the row at the bottom of the picture) with individual wires coming out of the "out" part of the fuse (which is one row up from the bottom of the picture).

Is the system using a "single" cable from the power source to feed all the top row and "splitting" it out to individual circuits using the 2nd row? That would make sense so that you would only need "9" wires rather than 16 wires (for the 1st row of fuses)

Started wondering why there were three "input" wires so went back to take a better look (now with added flash! )


And it looks like the top was a "continuous" strip but was segmented at some point between inputs 1 and 2 and then between 5 and 6. I am guessing that the split between 1 and 2 was done during the conversion and the one between 5 and 6 is from the factory?

So am I correct in thinking that Fuses 1, 6, 7 and 8 are being fed by the leisure battery and that fuses 2 to 5 and 9 to 20 are being fed from the starter battery?

Now, any thoughts on what Fuse 1 is used for? In the members area fuse diagram it says that 1 is for the "Cabin", but what does that mean? I know if I pull the fuse the "Key in ignition" warning buzzer does not sound, but there must be more to it than that?

I can see that there are also 2 more inputs on the second row at pins 4 and 7. But I am guessing that they are were done at the factory?

Tomorrow I'll start pulling individual fuses and see if there is a parasitic draw on any of them.

Oh and this is what the split relay thingy looks like:


Sorry for the ramblings, but I am using this thread as a sort of "diary" of what I have looked at and found so that if (when?) I give up in frustration I have a history of what I did to pass on to the professionals!

But do feel free to chime in with anything useful

TTFN

Cuch

[g8dhe]

All the fuses and circuits they feed are identified here http://www.g8dhe.net/bwm

[cuchillo]

All the fuses and circuits they feed are identified here http://www.g8dhe.net/bwm

Nice one!

[cuchillo]

A bit confused here...

All the fuses and circuits they feed are identified here http://www.g8dhe.net/bwm

Is says that Fuse 1 (10A, Top Left) is used for:
Engine - Control System - WL-TAT
Engine - Control System Ignition - FE-E,J5-DE
Air conditioning - Auto A/C Control System & Heater - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Chassis related - EC-AT Control System - FE-E, J5-DE
Interior lighting - Cargo Room & Spot Lights - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Accessories - Audio System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Accessories - Car Navigation System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Body - Power Door Lock System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Body - Auto Free Top - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Body - Sound Warning System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE

But it also says that for Fuse 8 (15A, Top Right) is used for:
Body - Cigar Lighter - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Accessories - Audio System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Accessories - Car Navigation System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Body - Remote Control Door Mirror - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE
Body - Galley-rear kitchen System - WL-T, FE-E, J5-DE

Why does the Audio system have 2 fuses? And what does each fuse control?

TIA

Cuch

[Gasy]

Is one for the radio memory
So will be permanent live
And one is switched live

[cuchillo]

Is one for the radio memory
So will be permanent live
And one is switched live

Ah right, thanks!

Any idea which was which? In mine, now, both are always live.

[cuchillo]

And to the 2nd part of my investigation.

This is what I have found out...

o. The original "split charge relay" (Combi Master e11), fitted when I ordered the vehicle, was not removed during the conversion. This was discussed/agreed with the converter as they believed that their Durite system was significantly superior to the Combi Master e11.



o. The Ignition Live Wire for the Combi Master e11 was wired to behind Fuse 7 which is the Driver's Side Blinds, which originally would only work when the ignition was on.

o. As a part of the conversion Fuse 7 was made permanently live.

o. When Combi Master e11 senses that the ignition is live it directly feeds the leisure battery from the starter battery as a "constant live" feed.

o. As a part of the conversion the Radio was made permanently live.

o. The original radio fitment included a powered aerial which became permanently live (Fuse 8 ) post conversion causing a constant drain.

o. The original Electronic Toll Card reader was wired onto the back of the Radio feed (Fuse 8 ) . Post conversion, that too become permanently live causing an additional drain.

So this is what I think happens when the car is parked up with the ignition turned off.

o. The Both the Aerial and the ETC caused a drain on the Leisure Battery.

o. The Leisure Battery had a full time connection to the Starter Battery because the Combi Master e11 was always on.

o. As the Leisure Battery discharged, the Starter Battery kept topping it up causing the Starter Battery to discharge as well.

o. At the end both batteries continued to discharge equally and completely as the protection that was put in place to stop this way bypassed/ignored.

o. It also would explain why both batteries read exactly the same voltage.

As a part of diagnosing this issue, I have ...

o. Removed the powered Aerial.

o. Removed the ETC unit.

o. Removed the Combi Master e11

o. Removed fully or made safe any loose wires.

These are the 1st two power drains I have come across. There might be others as when I did the current draw test on the fuse box there were draws on both Fuse 1 (~ 630 mA) and on Fuse 7 (~ 410 mA) ! . I had already removed the powered aerial and ETC box by the time it came to doing this test.

I have now taken both the LB and the SB off their respective charges and am monitoring the (dis)charge on the both every so often. (In the next post...)

I also checked on the drain on fuses 1 and 7 after I removed Combi Master e11 and now the drain on Fuse 1 is ~180 mA and on Fuse 7 its down to ~230 mA. So the drain has gone from 1,040 mA down to 410 mA. A big improvement but still high. Tomorrow I will disconnect the radio fully and see what difference that makes and as per Jilly's suggestion add an isolator switch to it. Any idea what kind of switch I should use?

Many Thanks (for still reading)

Cuch

[g8dhe]

For the radio, the backup supply is from the old top left fuse 10Amp - this supplies ALL the permanent supplies, ECU backup, central locking etc .
The main power for the radio is from the Ancillary circuit old top right fuse 15amp.

[cuchillo]

For the radio, the backup supply is from the old top left fuse 10Amp - this supplies ALL the permanent supplies, ECU backup, central locking etc .
The main power for the radio is from the Ancillary circuit old top right fuse 15amp.

Excellent! Many thanks!

[g8dhe]

An isolation switch is not the answer! When you do need to use the LB then any additional unwanted drains will still be there! Solve the problem, remove or at least understand and account for the excess current.

[cuchillo]

Hello,

An isolation switch is not the answer! When you do need to use the LB then any additional unwanted drains will still be there! Solve the problem, remove or at least understand and account for the excess current.

Ah sorry, I don't think that I explained myself well enough

Based on what you previously said about the radio never actually being off and only ever on standby and Jilly saying that she had an isolator switch fitted for her radio, I felt that that might be an avenue for me to follow.

In which case what kind of switch would I need as the radio takes in two power sources? I don't mind it not remembering stations as I don't have an aerial so there are no stations to remember. I only use it for its Bluetooth connectivity and that seems to be stored in a NVRAM part of the system as I was still able to connect to it, with my phone, even after pulling fuses and disconnecting the battery for a few mins.

Hope that makes sense.

Cuch

[g8dhe]

Ah right. Yes some people fit an Isolation switch to the LB itself breaking the earth connection, which stops the drain but doesn't help when you want to use the battery!
The current drawn in standby should be minimal, but some radios use the wrong connection on the ISO plug and draw there main power from the permanent supply which is when the problems start, to fit a switch anything capable of handling a couple of Amps would be fine, the problem is normally finding somewhere to mount it

[cuchillo]

So an update ...... Update 1 ....

Sorry, went quit as after the last set of posting I started talking to the company that did the conversion about what to do about a damaged batteries.

To their credit I received a replacement leisure battery 2 days later and the money for the starter battery a couple of days after that.

So all good there.