Bongo Fury

Sorry Chipvan... I'm being slow...will not do what? I only want it to melt the crystal that pass through the diesel therm...just prior to the filter...sp they melt and allow a free flow of diesel to the injectors.

Why won't it work?

At -20 a little glow heater like that wont do a lot,the fuel filter is a big lump to heat

It will have to run on diesel from cold anyway ,when you turn the key your be turning over cold even with that heater.

I get what your trying to do but these things are often fitted along side other ideas to all add up..ie i had one within the loop of my veg oil kit warming/top up heat within that loop if the wind chill drops the fuel below 50 oc.

once the coolant was warm,the plate to plate heatexchanger before my standard filter kept things toasty(60 oc) at the inlet to fuel pump at 60+ mph at -o8 oc..and the diesel them rarely ever came on during the trip.

would add a coolant heated fuel filter or a heatexchanger before your filter.

prob just a large heatexchanger before filter and isulate fuel lines,this way the hot fuel that comes from heatexchanger would go though filter then return hot fuel to tank!You would have a hot tank full of oil whilst driving and if you isulate the tank would hold heat for quite a while.

That with a engine coolant pre heater(kenlowe) your be talking.

http://www.biotuning.co.uk/images/HE4.jpg

Things warm up quite quickly on a heatexchanger then when engine upto temp,gets super hot!

Iam no expert but been using heat on fuel system for quite a few years ive messed about with all sorts of ideas on warming fuel ect.

Has probes all over the engine at different times,its quite interesting.

this is a great fuel filter..http://www.biotuning.co.uk/images/Eckes1.jpg

by fitting a coolant heated fuel filter it may not bother your insurance too much,a glow heater may start them to get in a flap on..


Also think of the flow/volume of fuel passing the heater, and how that freezing cold diesel with be able to warm up passing a tiny glow plug before it hits that cold lump of fuel filter,and wind chill to take into..


Iam not trying to tell ya what to do,just trying to help thow other ideas in the pot...

I think the wind chill thing may be a red herring (albeit, a slightly cold one .)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

The human body loses heat through convection, evaporation, conduction, and radiation.[1] The rate of heat loss by a surface through convection depends on the wind speed above that surface. As a surface heats the air around it, an insulating boundary layer of warm air forms against the surface. Moving air disrupts the boundary layer, allowing for new, cooler air to replace the warm air against the surface. The faster the wind speed, the more readily the surface cools.

For inanimate objects, the effect of wind chill is to reduce any warmer objects to the ambient temperature more quickly. It cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity.

LS&A wrote:Sorry Chipvan... I'm being slow...will not do what? I only want it to melt the crystal that pass through the diesel therm...just prior to the filter...sp they melt and allow a free flow of diesel to the injectors.

Why won't it work?

It won’t help what is upstream of the filter if it helps at all at really low temperatures.
You need to read between the lines of the blurb.
Adding petrol to diesel to stop waxing is acceptable, and was recommended in my Toyota Hi Ace manual.
Look closer at what is said.

Adding gasoline or additives to prevent fuel gelling offers no real solution but only seem to help on a limited basis. They can have a negative effect on the engine´s performance and life cycle, not to mention, they must already be added before it turns cold.

“Limited basis” Yes, when it is cold.
“Negative effect” Yes when used at to high a percentage.

As for adding before it turns cold, we normally know when winter is coming.
A 5% petrol mix in the UK wont hurt, if you’re going where its -20 doubling it will help.

Why don’t you ask Helen, It gets cold in Bulgaria and the fuel is as I’m led to believe is of dubious quality?

Hi
Too many variables in fuel, as one fill-up can have more water in the diesel than the next. I'm told, from what I've read, that water is always present in diesel.
From country to country diesel quality varies, and I've found that Shell and Lukoil are pretty good , especially the Shell winter diesel. Waxing is best prevented by adding something like Wurth Diesel Depresator, or Castrol is the one I use. Locally they add urine but I think the taxi driver uses a company taxi, so they won't spend the money on additives. Last year the diesel taxis were running in mins 30 Centigade.
Fuel heaters are moderately successful, and some model Jeeps have a heated filter, but I'm not sure whether mine has. All I can say is that when it had been below minus 15 one night (we've had a lovely warm winter this year), the Jeep didn't like starting, and the Bongo wouldn't . Both have the recommended dose of additives, but I suspect the 1.5 Kilometer drive from the garage when I added the diesel "antifreeze " to the fuel was not enough to mix the additive properly in the Bongo.
Heating a fuel line will be a bit of a help if you have started the engine and allowed it to come up to temperature, as the warmth of the engine bay will keep the injector pump and filter warm, but for cold starting, heating a tiddly bit of fuel in a fuel line isn't going to help starting...nor will a Kenlowe...it's more of a comfort thing, so you have nice warm heaters and can take a few seconds off the screen cleaning time. Not sure which range of vehicles you refer to As Piste Bashers, but in any cold climate, many service vehicles are kept inside, even the tracked ones, hence there's no trouble starting, and a fuel line heater will help a wee bit as the fuel travels along the SMALL DIAMETER lines from the tank.
If you are out of luck, and have water in the tank, as diesels have, when it gets shaken up and mixed with the fuel, that MOST DEFINITELY freezes ...
Diesel doesn't "crystalise", but forms waxy strands that won't pass through the filter, like a log jam at a saw-mill, as they won't orient in a way to pass through the filter lengthways, and from what I've read on the Wurth blurb, the additives allow the strands to orientate themselves in such a way that they pass through the filter. Whether this works in such a way, I can't say, but it's not recommended by "JEEP" in their handbook, as additives rot your fuel system seals...
Personally , I've found that the Bongo is a worse starter, as I'm guessing that the "Thimble" pre-filter is the jobbie that gets blocked BEFORE the filter gets blocked. I usually leave the Bongo in the yard in the snow, as its 4x4 system is not a permanent 4x4 as suggested, and only a traction control which cuts in when slippage is detected in the rear drive wheels. Very effective usually, but compared with the jeep in thick snow, it's a pain in the bot ...alright in a foot or less, and not a favourite vehicle on ice, as the high C of G is a bit worrying travelling sideways
Best bet is, as already said, check the weather...and IF it's going to be cold, and you're only going for a wee while, hire a petrol Lada Niva... ...If you're going for a long haul, or going to live there, get there in the Bongo, and take local advice
Normal starting for extremely cold weather:
Turn the headlights on for 5 minutes to load the battery, thus warming the electrolyte. Turn off headlights, heat the glowplugs twice or more, then try...usually, I find the engine goes:
Chak..chack....BANG and you can't get any more turning over ...leave the Bongo 'till it has been warmer than minus 8 C. for 4 or 5 hours, and it will start again
Best of luck
Cheers
Helen
P.S. my Bongo gets lavished with attention to the point of fanaticism, and runs like a cat purring , and cats like warm!

Thanks everybody,

Helen.. Thanks for a very detailed and informative post. I'm committed to taking the Bongo! I've got a few more ideas that may help if it gets really cold so I guess watch this space.

Hi,I think the object of the exercise is to stop the road fuel in the filter from freezing not to heat up chip fat or vegetable oil.Ford have been using filter heaters for years on the Ranger and Explorer (with the same fuel setup as the bongo wlt)vehicles all over the World with no reported problems.I would imagine that the Ford Motor Company knows what they are doing.(or should we tell them that they are wasting time and money).

Hi
Teenmal...
As I said, Jeep use filter heaters, but I'm not sure whether mine has one...what most diesels DON'T have is a heater for the tank and the fuel lines as well...A filter is obviously going to need warming for quite a while if the fuel has become solidified/ waxy overnight, and to my mind, it's a bit of a load on the battery in extreme temperatures. As I said, additives can work well down to well below minus 30 C, but unless you're powering the filter overnight, it's not going to stop waxing at the turn of the button on fuel without additive, or defrost the tank in a hurry. Heated filters will work, but only to a certain extent.
When my Father flew in the '40's , he saw a lot of conditions, and in Canada, the diesels would run in the Arctic in conditions of minus don't bother to ask, with no problem...they started the big mining equipment in the fall, and kept them running 'till spring...thus no problems, with all the heat generated. As a rule of thumb, though, unless you use an additive, you'll need to heat the whole fuel system in some degree or other overnight, by plugging into the mains. I've just been to look at the additive I use this winter, and it will protect down to minus 26 celcius. I think the Wurth additive promises lower...but I ain't a' goin' outside if it's that parkey!!! , and the dogs only dash outside for a quick empty!!!!
Having said that, it was common , years ago to buy Rovers, Jaguars, etc., namely the bigger names in export, to have block heaters for the cooling system fitted as a standard, along with other accessories, so that one model would cover all world markets, and with various cuts, these were removed. The purpose of the heaters was for North American markets in extreme cold, so that you could go to the supermart. , and plug the car in at the parking bay....failure to do that in extreme weather, meant a cracked block before you finished shopping!!!
You can run an engine, diesel , or otherwise, in any climate, but you'll need local advice...and in future I'll not use additives, due to them being harsh on seals. What material is used in the individual manufacturers seals is of no interest to me, but I'm not hastening the degradation by using additives on the Bongo, so I'll use the Jeep. Viton takes quite low temperatures in terms of seals, as I used Viton seals on my nitrous equipment quick-release connectors I used with some engines...and it takes a hammering, but I can't say I've used it with diesel, only with NOS systems
Generally, I would prefer to say that up to minus 20 C. I would just about trust a diesel with additive, and such temperatures would accommodate most regions of the world , but it's the extremes that need more attention than most climates, and since being here I can say that the climate is nothing like I imagined, as there are very few that get below minus 25 C regularly, and as much as 48C in the summer, in fact, I wouldn't believe it, had I not experienced it...and the running conditions for cars are hugely different in summer and winter
Today is a nice warm day, and it's minus 2, but the road was a mixture of water, fine-tilth mud and ice, like polished frozen choc-ice , and I've never in 47 years of driving travelled on anything as slippery!...tomorrow will be different again
Cheers
Helen

Hi
Remiss of me, but I forgot to say in both replies that "cloud point", at which waxy formations start, is minus 5 Celcius. Treated winter diesels are the same, but on untreated, the CFPP, or cold filter plug point where it clogs the filter is minus 15 C. and treated diesel can be minus 26.
This also depends on what else in the way of additives are present, and diesel starts clogging around particulate nucleii present in other additives.
A fuel filter is the problem, and that's where the log jam occurs. Every fuel manufacturer adds something or other, but in the end , it varies so much from region to region in every country, which is why local advice is necessary. Last winter, 2011/ 12, I managed by driving to the nearest Rompetrol station, as their new range of additives are very good, but I could find no information this winter, so I used my own....
Cheers
Helen

hi simon,that was interesting info thanks for that, i know loads that insulate to prevent wind chill.

I first thought insulation must help keep the heat you have within the fuel lines .

again on the flip side will not benifit from any heat that the engine kicks out either.

I found that when i had my heatexchanger before my standard filter the filter got really hot,and the flow going into ip was constaint as well,even well below zero,so i guess that heat loss is not much to worry about!!

regards jez

Having returned from pastures 'cold' I thought I'd provide an update as to how the Bongo got on. Before I do, thanks to all for opinions and advice.

Coldest night was -21'C so not quite as cold as previous years. Bongo was left out every night.

Each morning I went through the same routine:
Turned on the diesel therm;
Brushed off the snow and scrapped the windows, killing time to allow the diesel therm to do it's work;
Started the engine and drove away....never spluttered or failed to start.

I left the diesel therm running until the engine warmed then turned it off.

Worked a treat!

As a control experiment I did one morning not use the desel therm the Bongo started but spluttered and stopped. Rather than push the situation I used the diesel therm as before and had no problems.

Great result..

As they say"the proof of the pudding is in the eating"