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Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:41 pm
by bigdaddycain
Aye... The level was checked no doubt, and possibly topped up with whatever Hydraulic fluid was at hand
maybe that's the problem!
Jaws, i giggled at your comment about braking pressure with the drivers seat up!
Nice one.
My drive is on an upward slope, my handbrake is good, when i do a "running" ATF fluid check in "DRIVE" I have my right hand elbow pressing the footbrake for added security... evn if the bongo does creep forward (unlikely) it'll run into the wheely bins before it runs into the wall of my house
You can always do a "quick" service on the autobox if you don't fancy dropping the gearbox sump etc... Simply drag out whatever fluid you can with the pela,then replace with decent quality fresh hydraulic fluid...That'll replace about 90% of the old stuff, the remaining dregs being held in the torque converter and lines...
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:46 pm
by bigdaddycain
Northern Bongolow wrote:millermatic atf DM not un or um. far exeeds dexron 111.
not cheap but the best.
not sure if i would waste it though if it turns out to be a box fault if im honest.------ sorry.
Or Falcon peregrine brand ATF... It's Millermatic D3 in trade packaging, and about 30% cheaper.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:35 pm
by Alacrity
bigdaddycain wrote:Simply drag out whatever fluid you can with the pela,then replace with decent quality fresh hydraulic fluid...That'll replace about 90% of the old stuff, the remaining dregs being held in the torque converter and lines...
More like 60-70% BDC.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:23 am
by Jaws
Thanks for all those helpful replies; looks like I'll have to suck it and see
Will report any news in due course.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:31 pm
by Jaws
briwy wrote:If your Bongo is from where I suspect then I can tell you that the fluid is not changed under that check so could well be worth changing it anyway.
Well they say that ATF should look like cherryade i.e. bright red and translucent. The trusty Pela aspirated 3.5 litres of dandelion & burdock. Bearing in mind that this was not the whole story, I topped up with fresh, ran Jaws about a bit and repeated the exercise.
More cola type fluid, again about 3.5 litres. I would like to be able to say that this has made things better. Unfortunately I can not.
Two observations. One, it's really quite hard to see the level of ATF on the dipstick if it is fresh/new. Two, if it is easy to see it isn't fresh
Given the state of the fluid and persisting problems I think I'm heading for my local transmission experts.
I don't think there is an emoticon for "kicking myself" but if there is please insert here.
Just hoping that all this does not add up to a replacement 'box
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:14 am
by wonkanoby
pela is a good thing
but after you really must drop the sump
as you will find grunge etc in its base
and can also clean the filter
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:29 am
by Jaws
Time for an update.
Jaws now back from a long stay in the (trans)mission hospital and feeling much better
It seems that there was "cross feed to the direct drive clutch" which essentially meant that when she tried to change down the box locked up instead. Why this happened I can't say but I do know the magnet in the sump looked like a hedgehog
Best guess is that something began to wear and clogged the control valves. This necessitated a full 'box out on bench rebuild and refit. Not cheap. Expensive
I suggest that it may be a good idea to check not just the level but the colour of your ATF regularly and change it as recommended rather than assume that this has been done. Clear red sweet smell good: brown, burnt smell bad...
Thanks to Stuart and Darren for their expert help.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:52 pm
by opp_uk
Hi, Bit of an old post I know, but would you mind sharnig the cost of repair? I have the exact same problem, put up with it for about a year now, I allways just waited till the engine was warm before going anywhere. Dunnings (near where I live) have siad they wouldnt mess about, it would be a complete rebuild, they said as it could be 1 of 3 things; Torque / lock up / or something else which I cant remember, then a rebuild would be certain! I cant remember but sure the quote was around £1500.
Any advice much appreciated.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:13 am
by Jaws
Hi. Don't mind sharing it cost about £1000 for full out of vehicle rebuild with replacement parts as required. This did include fitting new drop links and anti roll bar bushes, which I supplied. Well, while she was on the lift it seemed silly not to...
Having said all that the problem has not entirely gone. No locking of the direct drive clutch but some mischief is still happening with rather mis-timed gear changes until up to temperature. I realise there is a temperature sensor in the gearbox but assumed this was for alarm/warning purposes only. Is it possible this affects the main gearbox control system?
My best advice is to make sure the gearbox guys try driving it from cold. This means either they come to you in the mornig or you leave it with them overnight. Clearly when picking up from repairer, the box will have been filled and checked (correctly) while warm. There is no problem when warm. Make sure you/they check it driving from cold before taking it to be fixed.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:42 am
by opp_uk
Hi, Thanks for your reply, I sympathise you have had this problem, but on the other hand for me its nice to read someone else has this fault, for a while I thought I was going mad!! I've actually used the vehicle for a year now with the fault and as you, no problem when engine slightly warmed up. I just got used letting motor idle for a couple of minutes before setting off.
I am only thinking of getting this done as I am considering selling, thanks to fuel now being priced for the wealthy!
It does concern me however reading your post, that you have spent around a £1000 and still have problems. I am going to spend some time and check all areas that have been advised in this post, then eventually take it over to Dunnings which quoted from memory £1200 +VAT (my memory is crap though). fingers crossed I find an electronic fault!
cheers
Pete
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:32 am
by Northern Bongolow
Northern Bongolow wrote:i would check the fan switch on the rear drivers side of the head, check the connections, and replace the switch itself if the end plastic bit is at all wobbly, it breaks off the main brass bit.
this bad connection is possibly sending mixed messages to the ecu that the engine is up to temp, then not, then is, etc.
this would activate the cold start solenoids then not etc, this also controls the glow plug temp message so they also are confused, hense the problem rearing its head in the now colder weather-----------------------maybe
.
if you replace this switch the coolant system will need to be bled.
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:01 pm
by Jaws
Northern Bongolow wrote:
i would check the fan switch on the rear drivers side of the head, check the connections, and replace the switch itself if the end plastic bit is at all wobbly, it breaks off the main brass bit.
this bad connection is possibly sending mixed messages to the ecu that the engine is up to temp, then not, then is, etc.
this would activate the cold start solenoids then not etc, this also controls the glow plug temp message so they also are confused, hense the problem rearing its head in the now colder weather-----------------------maybe
.
if you replace this switch the coolant system will need to be bled.
Thanks for the reminder! To be fair, I did see the magnet in the bottom of the oil pan and it was clear something was wearing so a strip down was inevitable. Naturally I don't want to repeat the experience so this weekend will be spent rechecking the fan switch
Re: Judder, judder stall.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:51 pm
by opp_uk
I was under the impression the magnet in the bottom of a sump pan would be like a 'furry beard' but not super excessive? I cant help but feel the problem is being confused with something completely different. My bongo doesnt stalll quietly so to speak, its a rather aggresive stall; like the vehicle wants to carry going. as you said earlier like a manual car braking in gear without pressing the clutch. Just a note i can pull away from a cold start as long as the revs dont go above a certain amount, but once i have increased revs and stall occurs then its all pretty hopeless untill engine warm. Would this indicate lock-up soleniod?
cheers
Pete