Bongo Fury

sfinnie wrote:Hello folks,

Apologies for re-visiting this topic, but most previous postings are a few years old.

Am looking for advice and recommendations on winter tyres this year, in particular:

- which tyres?
- which suppliers?
- are the insurance rumblings still rumbling or is it all over now (we're with Lifesure)?

Vredestein quatracs get positive mentions in a few threads. Is that still true? I also noticed Nankang SW-7s in a post. Any experience with them? Mytyres.co.uk are doing the Nankangs (215/65-15-100H) for £67.40 inc p&p - which seems a good deal.

TIA

- S.

From Vredestein's website:

News

Vredestein Quatrac 3 best among all-season tyres

Dutch tyre wins prestigious AutoBild accolade

The German auto magazine AutoBild carries out independent tyre tests every year. The latest issue saw all-season tyres being put through their paces in both summer and winter conditions. And the extensive texts produced a clear winner: The Vredestein Quatrac 3.

Vredestein Quatrac 3: Balanced and versatile
AutoBild selected ten all-season tyres from different brands in size 205/55 R16 and subjected them to a wide range of tests. The Vredestein Quatrac 3 came out top with the final mark “exemplary”. In addition to fine results on dry road surfaces, the tyre also had outstanding scores on wet and snowy surfaces. “The Quatrac 3 is a balanced and versatile tyre with accurate steering and superb handling – it ensures safety and security for drivers in case of aquaplaning, and has a short braking distance on both wet and snowy surfaces,” AutoBild reported.

Evolving legislation in Europe
Regulations regarding winter tyre use in Europe are not uniform. In countries such as Germany and Austria, winter tyres have been compulsory during the cold months for many years. They recently became obligatory in certain regions in Italy, and the subject has been a frequently topic of discussion in the Netherlands as well. The authorities in more countries are increasingly convinced by the advantages of tyres with specific winter qualities in wintry conditions and are adapting their legislation accordingly.

The Vredestein Quatrac 3 sports the Three Peak Snowflake symbol, which is assigned only to tyres which successfully complete a stringent winter test on snowy surfaces. This means that the Quatrac 3 is accepted in all countries where winter tyres are compulsory and which recognise the Three Peak Snowflake symbol.

A perfect tyre for a temperate climate
The Vredestein Quatrac 3 is the optimal alternative for drivers who wish to use a single type of tyre for both the summer and the winter season, instead of choosing separate models. It brings a definitive end to the days of the biannual tyre change.

The Vredestein Quatrac 3 is an excellent tyre for countries with moderate winter conditions. Its reliable and optimised performance at all times of the year make it the quintessential four-season tyre for areas with flat to rolling landscapes and a temperate climate,. Specialised versions include the Quatrac 3 SUV for sports utility vehicles and the Quatrac Lite for electric cars, which is more fuel efficient thanks to a lower rolling resistance.

Date: 28-09-'11

Couldn't put it better myself.

All,

Folks, belated thanks for all responses. Summarising it would seem:

- Quatrac 2's were good but no longer made
- Quatrac 3's are newer, less common (so far) but look promising.
- Only other experience is with Gislaved Nord Frost
- No responses for the Nankangs

I'm dithering. There are 4 good tyres on Bella (our bongo), only replaced in May this year. If they were needing replaced I'd probably go with the Quatracs. However given 4 good summer tyres I'm more inclined to go for proper winter jobs than the all-round quatracs.

Challenges to that thinking welcome..! Also any experience with winter tyres other than those above.

Thanks all.

Only response to that is that if you fit Quatrac 3s now but only use them as winter tyres (they do meet the full winter specs after all), and refit the newish summer ones in the spring, then when the latter eventually wear out if it's before the Quatracs do, you'll have all-seasons tyres to then fit and leave on until they also wear out - no more twice yearly swaps.

Ron Miel wrote:>
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.....Yes, also temporarily confused M&S with Mountain and Snow symbol - who wouldn't, other than St Michael? Two year old Quatrac 2s also still only had the M+S symbol but, although that indeed means something different (and I fully understood what the difference was when I bought Quatrac 2s), according to Wikipedia at least, it does have just as much industry standing as Mountain and Snow:

"M+S, or M&S: Mud and Snow; A tire that meets the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) and Rubber Association of Canada (RAC) all-season tire definition.[19] These are all-weather tires, with self-cleaning tread and above-average traction in muddy or very light snowy conditions, and for low ambient temperatures. Spike tires have an additional letter, "E" (M+SE).

Mountain Snowflake Pictograph: Winter passenger and light truck tires that meet the severe snow service requirements of Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) and Rubber Association of Canada (RAC).[19]"

In referring to M&S but meaning Mountain and Snow, I was not referring to Quatrac 2s. When I asked "Do all M & S tyres have low temperature compound by definition then?", I was questioning the assumption that because Quatrac 3s and other winter tyres had the symbol, they must have low temperature compounded tread rubber. As far as I can tell, that isn't the case.....
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According to a draft paper published by Transport Scotland (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... xpQhtpqpLA), analysing cost benefit of winter tyre fitment on HGVs, the Wikipedia info above is out of date in terms of imminent European homologation of winter tyres. Here is an extract:

"Definition of ‘winter tyre’

Across Europe, there is currently no single definition of a winter tyre. Winter tyres are also referred to as snow tyres, cold weather tyres and thermal tyres interchangably. Presently, for legal requirements alone, winter tyres are identified by the branding ‘M+S’ (Mud and Snow) on the side of the tyre. These tyres are designed to have a higher traction performance than standard tyres when driving in mud or snow, however, they do not need to meet any specific performace standard. “All weather” tyres, often imported, have to an extent eroded the value of M+S tyres for cars/vans.

In a move towards clarifying the status of winter tyres, the tyre industry has adopted a ‘3-peak mountain with snowflake’ pictogram (also known as the ‘alpine symbol’). This symbol should sit alongside the M+S brand on the tyre to differentiate winter tyres (M+S and alipne symbol) from all-season tyres (only M+S). Tyres with the ‘M+S and alpine symbol’ must have the ability to brake at least 7% better on snow than a standard reference tyre. This marking and associated performance standard will be an EU wide industry regulation for winter tyres starting in 20124.

As such, for the purposes of this paper, winter tyres are defined as those with the ‘M+S and alpine symbol’ on them. Studded snow tyres (as used in some European (mainly Scandinavian) countries) are not being considered in this paper."

That confirms scanner's assertion that (apparently due to devaluation by some M&S imports), M&S alone should no longer be read as meaning winter tyre, or indeed much at all. Elsewhere in that same paper, it is also confirmed that winter tyres may be expected to have tread rubber compounds which remain fully functional below 7C.

The new-product Vredestein Quatrac Lites for Mrs M's Nissan Note (with full M&S/Alpine spec and markings) have now arrived at our local tyre dealer, so for your other cars, they're now starting to become available here. Unless the weather goes very pear shaped beforehand, we're not going to fit them until the New Year, by which time the existing tyres will probably be at about 3 mm - as soon as they are fitted, I'll post a report. Ignore the Vredestein Publicity Dept reference earlier in this thread, to their use only for electric cars - read the full spec features on their website, and trade reviews. They're offered as particularly good for electrics and hybrids, where fuel economy is paramount, but they're also full winter spec tyres, good for all applications up to their speed and load ratings (88H in the case of Note-size tyres).

Good bit of info Ron - I've just got a pair of Goodyear Ultragrip 8 185/60/14 for my SEAT for £114 delivered.

They're the latest (manufactured October 2010) and carry the Alpine and M + S symbols.

The cold weather is going to reach up here by the start of December so I'll be fitting them in around 3 weeks time.

dandywarhol wrote:Good bit of info Ron - I've just got a pair of Goodyear Ultragrip 8 185/60/14 for my SEAT for £114 delivered.

They're the latest (manufactured October 2010) and carry the Alpine and M + S symbols.

The cold weather is going to reach up here by the start of December so I'll be fitting them in around 3 weeks time.

Good Scottish price for top notch winter tyres!

The Vredestein Quatrac Lites, at 185/65/15, are £76 each, supplied, fitted, valved, balanced, and old one disposed of. They meet full Euro 2012 specs for economy, noise and winter rating but are also all-seasons tyres.

When Quatrac Lites first launched (Geneva Motor Show 2011), whoever wrote the press release said they were intended for low mileage users, so I inferred earlier in this thread that they probably achieved their traction/performance/year round use mix by compromising on life cycle. However, to put the record straight, that may be wrong. It's not mentioned in the substantive marketing blurb now they're actually being delivered but this is - "a high level of wear resistance in all conditions".

Ron Miel wrote:>
>
The new-product Vredestein Quatrac Lites for Mrs M's Nissan Note (with full M&S/Alpine spec and markings) have now arrived at our local tyre dealer, so for your other cars, they're now starting to become available here. Unless the weather goes very pear shaped beforehand, we're not going to fit them until the New Year, by which time the existing tyres will probably be at about 3 mm - as soon as they are fitted, I'll post a report.....

Fitted this week. First impressions: nice smooth, quiet runners, slightly heavier steering than with the original-fit Conti Eco tyres. Traction's very good - the light-ish front end, 1.6 litre Note, was always apt to spin its front wheels if accelerated a bit too enthusiastically from say traffic lights. Caught me out a couple of times after switching from the Bongo. Much less apt to do that now and you've got to be really brutal to make it happen. We'll see what they're like on snow when it gets this far south.

Tried the Ultragrips on 3" deep snow yesterday - front wheel drive Seat - super grip!

sfinnie wrote:All,

Folks, belated thanks for all responses. Summarising it would seem:

- Quatrac 2's were good but no longer made
- Quatrac 3's are newer, less common (so far) but look promising.
- Only other experience is with Gislaved Nord Frost
- No responses for the Nankangs

I'm dithering. There are 4 good tyres on Bella (our bongo), only replaced in May this year. If they were needing replaced I'd probably go with the Quatracs. However given 4 good summer tyres I'm more inclined to go for proper winter jobs than the all-round quatracs.

Challenges to that thinking welcome..! Also any experience with winter tyres other than those above.

Thanks all.

I'm on full Winters... Wintrac 4 Extreme's... with another set of Summer wheels n tyres....

Piccies please Mike...