Bongo Fury

BongoJon wrote:Hi all.

My bongo struggles to start if left for 4 or 5 days and if left longer than a week I need the rac out to jump it. There is no drain on the battery and it charges ok when running, checked by myself and rac man too. Battery is only 3 months old and had a new one before that too which i replaced thinking it was faulty. Doubt it is a faulty bat though as would be 2 on the trot. The batt is a 95ah one so should have enough umph.

When it starts it draws just over 300 amps. I have striped started motor and cleaned contacts which did not seem to bad. Do I need a new starter motor maybe, or another from scrapped bongo. dont have £150+ for a new one.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Hi jon,

get your battery checked,most places do them free.Could be 3 in a trot,if your 2nd battery was not goosed they would not have replaced it

Malc

MountainGoat wrote:Sorry Ron, no offence intended but my question was aimed at others to suggest a possible alternative explanation. At the time Dandy fully explained to me what he believed the problem was with my Bongo. At some later date he posted this eplanation on the Forum on one of the many times that this problem has arisen. What he said is as follows:

Jim, I think what Tony's alluding to is that the Bongo alternator doesn't like being tapped into for a split charge relay which is what his converter had done. The heavy duty "intelligent" relays work far better although mine packed in under high temperatures in East Europe this year
On a positive note, Martin of Willintons changed it without query.

_________________
Whale oil beef hooked.

SGL3 in burgundy TDM900

I had only had my Bongo about two months before I set off on holiday in it. Before I did so I took it round to my local auto electricians where they spent a day having a look at it, charged me £115.00 then told me that it should be ok. Five days later it failed to start again and needed a jump start. Looks like my auto electricians did not have a clue about split charging and just charged up my battery, That was a really expensive charge up, to think I could have got the breakdown out for nothing. After a month or two of my Bongo being stuck on my drive I got to know dandy and he agreed to have a look at my Bongo for me. He even showed me how to use a multimeter.

..and no offence taken, although whatever was wrong with your original split charge system, I think it simply confuses the issue for BongoJon, whose problem by his own clear description seems to simply be due to too many engine starts, and too little engine running (i.e., mileage) to replace the repeated heavy engine starting battery discharges.

That would happen whether or not he's got a split charge system, or even whether or not he's got a leisure battery - and indeed he confirmed that he does not have - unless, as suggested by several other people here, his battery is occasionally taken out of the vehicle for offline re-charging when necessary.

Can't tell what the Willinton system actually does BTW, as I haven't located one online but would guess that it perhaps disconnects the leisure battery from the alternator once the static leisure battery terminal voltage indicates a full charge. Perhaps dandywarhol knows that older Bongo alternators don't provide a sufficiently heavy duty output to concurrently re-charge starter and leisure batteries for sustained periods but, both by multimeter checks and by sustained charging performance, mine certainly does - it's a post '99 series Bongo, and perhaps at that point the alternator was uprated. Anyone know? Otherwise, as I said, one possibility in your case was simply an underperforming alternator - perhaps they're common on Bongos as they age?

I reckon the older alternators can cope with the 2 batteries - what seems to cause problems when you tap into the alternator output for a relay is a spike which causes the dash lights to glow, probably via the ECU

The Wilinton "intelligent" relay is a volatge sensing one which only allows the LB to get a charge to it over around 13.5 volts

dandywarhol wrote:I reckon the older alternators can cope with the 2 batteries - what seems to cause problems when you tap into the alternator output for a relay is a spike which causes the dash lights to glow, probably via the ECU

The Wilinton "intelligent" relay is a volatge sensing one which only allows the LB to get a charge to it over around 13.5 volts

Understood now re the alternator to relay tap effect, thanks dandy, but am not seeing it on mine. Is it a universal problem do you know, or does it perhaps just affect 2.5TD ECUs, or earlier ones regardless?

OK, guessed the Willinton had to do something by voltage sensing but I think you're describing the opposite of what I imagined - do you mean when the alternator output exceeds 13.5 volts and, if so, how does that eliminate the spike problem?

I feed the relay from the live 6mm stud in the engine fusebox and take the oulet from the relay to the LB. The Relay has an earth terminal too and thats it - easy peasy and no spikes.

dandywarhol wrote:I feed the relay from the live 6mm stud in the engine fusebox and take the oulet from the relay to the LB. The Relay has an earth terminal too and thats it - easy peasy and no spikes.

Ta. OK, I know what to do if I should hit the problem then, although aren't you really just describing better earthing rather than something inherent in the Willinton - not knocking the latter though, as I think I can see its point, spiking aside.

Thanks for everyones advice. Ran the bongo on monday night, 8 miles one way and 8 back. Took it out for a short trip to the gym, about 1.5 mile and then back. All fine no problems.

Got in today and it struggled to start, when it did quite a bit of smoke came out the back but then dissappeared after a rev or two. Started first time no problem after that with only a short run to garage.

Thinking about it I have only really had this problem since I once put bio fuel in and the bongo went horribly wrong. Had to pay £400 to get the system flushed and tank emptied and injecters cleaned and so on. That may have something to do with it or could be coincedence.

Maybe it is glow plugs, any thoughts. Is it easy and cheap to replace?

BongoJon wrote:Hi,

When it struggles to start it does not turn over very well but then once it catches it is fine. Starts every time once warm. No leisure battery. When it does not start at all the battery is flat but as I said there is no drain.

I wondered if the starter motor is draining battery when turning over and then I am not driving the bongo long/far enough to recharge it. Sometimes only go to the shop which is a 10 min run and might not use it again for a couple of days for the same kind of thing.

Does any of that make sense?

I have not read all the posts, bit lazy , but have you left any interior lights, radio, cooler, etc on I use mine only once a week at the moment and it starts first time.

BongoJon wrote:Thanks for everyones advice. Ran the bongo on monday night, 8 miles one way and 8 back. Took it out for a short trip to the gym, about 1.5 mile and then back. All fine no problems.

Got in today and it struggled to start, when it did quite a bit of smoke came out the back but then dissappeared after a rev or two. Started first time no problem after that with only a short run to garage.

Thinking about it I have only really had this problem since I once put bio fuel in and the bongo went horribly wrong. Had to pay £400 to get the system flushed and tank emptied and injecters cleaned and so on. That may have something to do with it or could be coincedence.

Maybe it is glow plugs, any thoughts. Is it easy and cheap to replace?

Glowplugs factsheet in the members area should help - http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/member ... wplugs.pdf

missfixit70 wrote:

BongoJon wrote:Thanks for everyones advice. Ran the bongo on monday night, 8 miles one way and 8 back. Took it out for a short trip to the gym, about 1.5 mile and then back. All fine no problems.

Got in today and it struggled to start, when it did quite a bit of smoke came out the back but then dissappeared after a rev or two. Started first time no problem after that with only a short run to garage.

Thinking about it I have only really had this problem since I once put bio fuel in and the bongo went horribly wrong. Had to pay £400 to get the system flushed and tank emptied and injecters cleaned and so on. That may have something to do with it or could be coincedence.

Maybe it is glow plugs, any thoughts. Is it easy and cheap to replace?

Glowplugs factsheet in the members area should help - http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/member ... wplugs.pdf

Bought mine from here N G K less than £40.00 for a set

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk

Ron Miel wrote:

dandywarhol wrote:I feed the relay from the live 6mm stud in the engine fusebox and take the oulet from the relay to the LB. The Relay has an earth terminal too and thats it - easy peasy and no spikes.

Ta. OK, I know what to do if I should hit the problem then, although aren't you really just describing better earthing rather than something inherent in the Willinton - not knocking the latter though, as I think I can see its point, spiking aside.

Gotta confession dandy Mine's got a voltage sensing intelligent split charge system installed already

Problem was that it's like pulling teeth to get technical information (or any response at all at present) from my erstwhile converter, who (once again) shall remain nameless, for this purpose. All I could get from them originally was that a "split charge relay" was fitted - and repeated requests for full description and leaisure electrics circuit diagrams have been ignored.

However, having several times now arrived on campsites and tried to immediately use 12v leisure circuits but then found them to be inoperative for a short period after engine stop, I've realised that there's an inherent delay while battery terminal voltage(s) settle back after alternator charging. Haven't yet had time to attack the set up with a multimeter to check out all the circuits/fuses, etc. but I think I've spotted the intelligent switching unit - a bright yellow plastic-encased in-line gizmo, with one positive link across to the starter battery, and a mass of others routed through (to unknown terminations at present) from the leisure battery. No brand name on it, or any other labelling. Does that sound like a Willinton?

Nope, this is mine fitted last year, i think the earlier model is a bit different

Here's the gizmo fitted in ours, which I've assumed is an intelligent split charge unit. Anybody recognise it?

Haven't yet multimetered its output circuits* and functions but it seems to also switch all 12v load circuits off, except the fridge, while the leisure battery is alternator charged - and doesn't restore them until seemingly the leisure battery terminal voltage settles back. Is that functionality usual?

*(...and may not do so, as I can't access this end of them unless I break the seals under the plastic end caps.)

Looks like an old bottle of Colemans Mustard to me..........

dandywarhol wrote:Looks like an old bottle of Colemans Mustard to me..........

As it's all shiny and clean, a new bottle surely