Bongo Fury

A dealer dodgy enough to exploit this lophole in the law is hardly going to break down and cry when you confront him with his ploy. He certainly won't beg your forgiveness and offer a full refund. And I know it's not the fascists that are going to crush the van, it's VOSA, but they are the puppets of the fascist rule makers.

Ian wrote:

Freds boss wrote:Perhaps a silly question but what if its registered as PLG but has been converted to campervan can there be any comeback for not declaring its changes if stopped and checked on police etc.


freda boss
Viv

That won't make any difference in terms of excise duty, but it may invalidate your insurance.

I'm sure you have insured it as a converted van as it's cheaper ( check with LIFESURE)
then no problems at all

just £200 to pay for road fund licence as and when the new regs' kick ' in

No problem

Yes we have it insured for campervan but was unsure whether we had to tell Swansea as to change of use as I had to tell them about changing my Yaris Verso as it has a hoist in to lift my buggy in and out.


freds boss

Viv

ok boys, help, having studied our paperwork I can report the following: Body type:Motor Caravan
Taxation class:Private/Light Goods and no C02 emission,so far so good but then horror of horrors underneath fuel it states 8 seats!! which is interesting as we have a manufacturers Mazda cube fitted kitchen, and the seat adjacent to that has been removed, leaving 5 seats
(2 front and 3 behind) does anyone have any idea if this will affect the tax payable? Help!!! thanks J and J

Interesting J&J..
Mine also has a factory fitted Cube. The V5 shows the body type as "MPV" and the number of seats as 6. I've also removed the seat adjacent to the cube, making 5 seats available, but I kept the seat just in case I ever need it, so I guess the V5 is technically correct.

It's possibly worth notifying DVLA that your vehicle doesn't have 8 seats - I can't see that there is going to be any taxation penalty. Odd that it's body type is "motor caravan" but taxation class is PLG, since I'd have thought that the 2 definitions would be mutually exclusive. The taxation class is probably the key one however.

Rhod

Rhod wrote:Interesting J&J..

It's possibly worth notifying DVLA that your vehicle doesn't have 8 seats - I can't see that there is going to be any taxation penalty. Odd that it's body type is "motor caravan" but taxation class is PLG, since I'd have thought that the 2 definitions would be mutually exclusive. The taxation class is probably the key one however.

Rhod

The important this about the smaller number of seats is lower insurance costs (which is evidenced by cheaper insurance for many people's fully converted Bongos).

If you have an eight seater the insurer is covering the risk of paying out for eight deaths or serious injuries in the event of the worst scenario, as opposed to say four in a full 'motor caravan' conversion.

Motor caravan; PLG; nothing under emissions; number of seats 7.
Funny, there are 8 seats, apart from the odd time I've removed the rear bench- & no conversion.

Would rear bench removal & fitting a home-made rear unit not qualify it to be a motor caravan?

If not, perhaps I need to declare a dealer error to DVLA, though perhaps it would be polite to first inform the gentlefellow who sold it to me...

Distilled Waters Run Deep wrote:Would rear bench removal & fitting a home-made rear unit not qualify it to be a motor caravan?

It wouldn't be enough I'm afraid. Here is an extract from the current VOSA guide lines:

“A Motor caravan means a special purposes passenger car constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:

• seats and table
• sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats
• cooking facilities
• storage facilities.

This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.”

The interpretation applied to this definition is as follows:

“Seats and a table are required to be an integral part of the living accommodation area, and mounted independently of other items. The table must be capable of being mounted directly to the vehicle floor and /or side wall. The table mounting arrangement must be secured as a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded), although the table may be detachable. Permanently secured seating must be available for use at the table. The seats must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall. The seats must be secured as a permanent feature, (bolted riveted, screwed or welded).

Sleeping accommodation must be an integral part of the living accommodation area. It must consist of either beds or a bed converted from seats (to form a mattress base) secured as a permanent feature, with base structures bolted, riveted, screwed or welded to the vehicle floor and/or side wall, (unless the sleeping accommodation is provided as a provision over the driver's cab compartment).

Cooking facilities must be an integral part of the vehicle living accommodation and mounted independently of other items. They must be secured to the vehicle floor and/or side wall as a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed, or welded). The cooking facility must consist of a minimum of a two ring cooking facility or a microwave in either case having a fuel/power source. If the cooking facility is fuelled by gas having a remote fuel supply, the fuel supply pipe must be permanently secured to the vehicle structure. If the cooking facility is fuelled by gas having a remote fuel supply, the fuel reservoir must be secured in a storage cupboard or the reservoir secured to the vehicle structure.

Storage facilities must be provided by a cupboard or locker. The facility must be an integral part of the vehicle living accommodation, i.e.mounted independently of other items, unless incorporated below seat/sleeping accommodation or the cooking facility. The storage facility must be a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed or welded). The storage facility must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side wall, unless a storage provision is provided over the driver's cab compartment.”

This definition has, in the past, allowed some unscrupulous (some would say innovative) importers to install temporary kitchen units in the vehicle solely for the purposes of passing the SVA test. The kitchen units are then removed once a registration certificate has been issued. This is against the law and vehicles may be impounded or crushed.

• Cooking facilities must be an integral part of the vehicle living accommodation and mounted independently of other items. They must be secured to the vehicle floor and/or side wall as a permanent feature, (bolted, riveted, screwed, or welded). The cooking facility must consist of a minimum of a two ring cooking facility or a microwave in either case having a fuel/power source. If the cooking facility is fuelled by gas having a remote fuel supply, the fuel supply pipe must be permanently secured to the vehicle structure. If the cooking facility is fuelled by gas having a remote fuel supply, the fuel reservoir must be secured in a storage cupboard or the reservoir secured to the vehicle structure

.

Funny no mention of a sink at all, mine seems to fullfill all the spec's, however it is listed as a PLG with eight seats, there is no mention of a CO2 figure in the V5, mine has centre reversed bench, all work was carried out by Start of Harlington, registered as a vehical dealer, the two ring burner is bottle fed via regulator and flexi' hose, the bottle is stored in a cupboard, anyway non of it is able to leave the vehicle and the locker is part of the bed and screwed to the side so apart from the gas pipe being a hose I think it's a camper, I hope

Sparky

re Innovation

Just what should somebody with an 8 seater "Motor Caravan" do?

I have a fully converted bongo by montague 321 and on the V5 form it states body type estate tax class PLG, number of seats 8, I have been in touch with the DVLA and they informed me that everything is correct apart from the seats.
They have asked me to return the V5 form to have this changed to the 2 seater that it now is, And has been since the import of the vehicle.
I have also been in touch my insurance company (Safeguard) and they say that they have no problem with the classification or the body type, only the amount of seats which will be changed.

I hope that this can be of some assistance.

Another good source which explains the new VED classes
in terms of motorhomes can be found here:

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome_road_tax.shtml

It's worth a read.

An important point to note is that date of first registration
means first registered by the DVLA in this country and not
the date of manufacture.

I have 2 Bongos, 1 campervan and 1 with eight seats. The
tax rate for the eight seater is 400 pounds. This was taxed
for the year in May 2008 and the price was 300 pounds.
This was made up from part of the old rate and part of the
new rate, so the new rates have already "kicked in".

According to Ian's explanation of what features make it a
motorhome, my campervan - although a bit sparse - appears
to conform to the regulations.

I am insured with NFU. they say the number of seats makes
no difference to the insurence unless it exceeds eight seats.
Others may take this into consideration.

I am of the opinion that the number of seats declared on the
V5 makes little or no difference to the taxation class as far as
the DVLA is concerned.

2sticks wrote: The
tax rate for the eight seater is 400 pounds. This was taxed
for the year in May 2008 and the price was 300 pounds.
This was made up from part of the old rate and part of the
new rate, so the new rates have already "kicked in".

I'm very confused by your statement above. I thought I understood this stuff very well and I thought the £400 rate applied to tax discs taken out from 13 March 2008, for Band G (over 225 gm/km) for cars registered on or after 23/03/06.

To help me understand how a rate of £300 could apply in May 2008, can you tell us:

• What are the CO2 emissions on your £300 tax Bongo?
• When was it registered in the UK?

trevd01 wrote:

2sticks wrote: The
tax rate for the eight seater is 400 pounds. This was taxed
for the year in May 2008 and the price was 300 pounds.
This was made up from part of the old rate and part of the
new rate, so the new rates have already "kicked in".

I'm very confused by your statement above. I thought I understood this stuff very well and I thought the £400 rate applied to tax discs taken out from 13 March 2008, for Band G (over 225 gm/km) for cars registered on or after 23/03/06.

To help me understand how a rate of £300 could apply in May 2008, can you tell us:

• What are the CO2 emissions on your £300 tax Bongo?
• When was it registered in the UK?

Ditto and I thought the CO2 emissions were set in lab condition tests undertaken by the manufacturer in order to get an EU homologation certificate - not something that Mazda have ever done as they never intended it to be sold in the EU.


Having read this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM23360.htm how does a Bongo get a CO2 emissions figure?

scanner wrote: Ditto and I thought the CO2 emissions were set in lab condition tests undertaken by the manufacturer in order to get an EU homologation certificate - not something that Mazda have ever done as they never intended it to be sold in the EU.


Having read this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM23360.htm how does a Bongo get a CO2 emissions figure?

I am not confused about how a Bongo can get a CO2 figure - it is through the eSVA test, and the document you have given the link to confirms this

hmrc in EIM23660 wrote:The importer of the car might have arranged for it to go through a version of the type approval process known as Single Vehicle Approval (SVA). Under the enhanced SVA scheme introduced in August 2001, almost all imports from outside the EU will be required to undergo the CO2 type approval test, although minor categories of vehicle are exempt. The employer should be able to find out from the importer if there is an approved CO2 emissions figure.

What I am confused about is how the figure quoted by 2sticks is £300, which is not one of the current rates, nor was it back in May 08. Bongos subject to an eSVA have been quoted here as having CO2 of 302 gm/km, putting them into the highest, ie £400, rate.