Bongo Fury

mike and lez i topped it up the minimum mark in the expansion vessel.When we got back it was nearly empty. ive topped it up again to the minimum mark.
the interior of the exhaust is dry to touch and carbon is lining it.the smoke does tend to sting your eyes and it does smell of fuel sort of. been tinkering again a bit tonight with the fans, trying to eliminate a few thinks. ive managed to get the rad fans running as we mentioned before lez. the scavenger fan works by shorting out the plug terminals. handbrake area is getting hot and so is the engine bay, people on here say you can feel and hear the fan come on but i havnt heard it since last year and i cant get it to work, so what temperature does it need to be to come on. ive had the temperate sensor stood in boiling water and it still didnt fire up the fan. just trying to get my head round why im losing the coolant and the smoke issue. for information about 10 minutes ago with engine warmed up it wouldnt stop smoking at all so switched off and called it a night, cant afford to lose any more hair.

thermostat switch in water, if its the '2nd level' switch to give extra cooling as opposed to normal cooling, it *may* trip at 100-110 degrees centigrade, not something your household kettle will probably achieve.........

You would need to check part number on switch back to manufacturer to see the specs and trip point.

And before the uneducated start to shout that water boils at 100 so it would be steam etc, your wrong, but getting an education is something Google will provide for free, my time costs...........

try adding salt to a pan of water to achieve a higher than 100 maximium temperature!
He must be down to 3 hairs by now

I have been getting similar symptoms for some time (6 weeks)

An eratic start (misfire ) for a few seconds then fine and water loss I have crawled all over the engin trying to find the cause.
I found a small leak with Hadens help and replaced the bleed pipe.

Still had the leak.

Now with the gear box problems I had over the weekend I decided to bite the bullit and rang Bell Hill to get that sorted and mentiond the water loss explaining the symptoms

Yes we get that almost 1 a week "hairline crack in cylinder head".

just got back from taking the car there seams the minor problem is the big job and the ( to me) major one the gearbox is easier

Seams I have been very unlucky with my car but at least its with an expert now even though it wiull cost a packet to fix

You discribe exactly the same symptoms I have I will let you know what the outcome is

Gunga wrote:try adding salt to a pan of water to achieve a higher than 100 maximium temperature!
He must be down to 3 hairs by now

What you need is pressure, thats the big 'modifier', hence why up mountains you cant get a good brew, water wont go hot enough.......

westonwarrior wrote:I have been getting similar symptoms for some time (6 weeks)

Yes we get that almost 1 a week "hairline crack in cylinder head".

Yes and its been alot warmer the last 6 weeks.........

(head failures)
Dont you think that means one of two things.......

1) Bongos are an unreliable POS (no not Point Of Sale) that would have gone back with a recall in no time, and none would have made 10ys old never mind being sold off over here.

2) They are easily 'cracked' by hard driving in hot conditions? (well by the way I have seen one certain driver scrw it round the streets, I dont think that is a reason)(no its not mike, he drives with a flat cap and a pipe holding up tour busses)

3) (did I say 2?) hairline cracks are often a good money earner for garages when all they do is replace head gasket and give it a quick skim (if your lucky enough to even get the skim)

Heads are not that 'fragile', but cheap gaskets are..............

Gaskets dont last forever, they do wear away, and all vehicles will need one at some point in its life, and some gaskets can weep water if they are the paper/metal type, better to find a full metal one if possible.

Oh and another story about water loss............

(get ya cuppa now..)

My daily drive was(and still is for my sins) a citroen XM that suffered water loss and smoke.

For months I had this fear of the head gasket, but in the end I just gave up on trying to diagnose it / fix it and decided to through it down the motorway and see if I could make it worse, so it would be easier to find....

Well after many licence chancing experiences I gave up, never did kill it, but then one day I mentioned it to another owner, and he said 'ohh yes, I know what that is, hang about' off he toddled into his shed and came out with an old rusty radiator cap and said put that on.....

I said no mines a shiny new one but he insisted, and guess what, the water loss stopped.....

Reason: the replacement cheap car shop cap had a smaller/thinner rubber.........

Never did stop the extra smoke though....


The moral of this story is, check the little bits first....

You all go on about heads/gaskets like headless chickens, if your that worried have it pressure tested and know once and for all.

(I'd be more worried about the autoboxes when they need a new clutch plate...........)(ooh can of worms)


Lez:

WesternWarrior - I hardly dare ask at a time like this, cos I'm very sorry to hear you've had such bad luck (THE two big Bongo ones happening at the same time), but any feedback you can give would be a help to others.

Good luck with it.

Mike

Mike

not had a final diagnostic yet all in theory at the moment

But pointing towards not getting radiator flushed/changed

Gearbox no idea whe I find out I will report

So please lez

As the garage is lieing to me


and as I have machanics crawling all over it for weeks

What is it realy then?

westonwarrior wrote:So please lez

As the garage is lieing to me

I worked in a garage, we *never* lie to customers, sometimes make an honest mistake or two along the way, but never lie

and as I have machanics crawling all over it for weeks

Ahh you must be employing the good ones.........


If youve got a leak your just going to have to find it, like I said, mine was nothing more than a bad radiator cap, all the cheapo ones from car shops / motor accesory shops / halfrauds have a standard size rubber, and citroen being citroen are about 1.6mm bigger, result, only citroen fits and cheapo copy parts companies cant be bothered to go to the expense of tooling a factory up to make a cap with a rubber 1.6mm bigger when a standard rubber 'just fits' 99% of the time.


If you really think you /could/ have a head problem, have the system pressure tested, by some different mechanics.......

If you really think you /could/ have a head problem, have the system pressure tested, by some different mechanics.......

Thank you for backing my decision, thats why I have gone to a bongo specialist, so they can do just that.

Yup its the only way, but like I said, and I see it in alot of car groups, and I am in alot of them, lots of 'head' problems that turn out to be something else, its a block of cast aluminum at the end of the day, and while some do crack, some do bend, and some have hairline fractures, its only a very small percentage

Gotta admit, I like lez's style. Brusque on the surface, but well intentioned and sound advice. Well worth making damn sure it isnt something simple before suffering the Big £.

Good luck WW, it'll be fantastic luck (and a pint for Lez) if it turns out to be something simple.

Mike

mikeonb4c wrote: lez's style. Brusque on the surface,

Oh I dont mean to sound heavy handed / nasty / I know everything but......

the one thing I hate is to see people throw money away on work thats just not needed.....

Lets face it, if a garage advises you that its a cracked head, and they get another head, to find its a weepy gasket, what do you think they are going to do........

In a second they will fit that new head and charge you the big bucks!
they wont admit they made a mistake, and charge you less............

Heads are tuff as old boots, prepare for another long story.......

This time is a Datsun (not nissan) Sunny auto....

I went to Whitby, now as us up't north here can tell you we have some big hills round here, and on one, I decided to see just how fast I could be going at when I got to the top...

Foot to floor screaming all the way up the hill I was going some, got to top at a hairy speed, looked in rear view mirror, nothing to be seen except white!

I had cooked it, it was steaming, smolking, temp gauge was hard over, it was running rough, and just died at the side of the road.......

No mobile phone service, (radio waves are absorbed by sheep, its a fact)

So, I sat, looked at wife, who was ever so sweet with such questions like is something wrong, will it go again, should we push it......

after about 20 minutes and being passed by other cars I decided to try and restart it, well it did, just.

It coughed, backfired, spluttered, was burning oil, had no water, oil was leaking from the middle of the head were it met the block........

I thought well thats it dead car, so keep driving, cant make it cost anymore.....

at a few mph and about 1200rpm tops we crawled on, pick up speed down hils, and had great trouble getting up them, by now I had to keep foot flat down, and it would rev up then die, rev up and die...

This was not an issue on the flat, but on the hills, it would being an auto, jump forward when the car revved up, and fall back when the engine died, kind of two steps forward one back....

I then mastered the art of braking when it tried to roll back, so we crept a few inches at a time up the hill, the smoke was now coming from under the bonnet as well as from the exhaust.......

Once on the flat we could take a rest and let the car cool down, then onwards, smoking, all the way, about another 10 miles to go......

Well we got to whitby station, I got phone service, and father was called to bring tow rope, we went off for a walk as it would be an hour for him to get to us.

When he arrived he asked me to start it to turn it round, I commented that it was shot, the oil was gone, the water was gone, and it was leaking from were the head was warped.

Anyhow, I turned the key, and it started and ticked over almost normal....

Quickly turning it off I sent for water, brother came back with a 25ltr cooking oil tin from the chipshop 3/4 full of water.

Using a plastic cup we got water into the car and restarted it, plan was to drive as many miles as possible till the engine dropped to bits then tow it home.

We set off and drove the 40 miles back to york, and even got it to 'legal limits' and a bit on the way home.

car ran for another 9 month or so after that, with no maintenance or anything done to the head.

Heads are not that weak, is the point, gaskets however....
(in this case the engine got so hot so quick the head just went like a banana, the gasket never got a chance to fail)

Even though that head warped when hot, it contracted and sat back down when cold, the original silicone gasket sealant doing its job and taking up the small irregularities.

Thats another area where people dont agree, should a gasket be dry fitted, or with gasket sealant, I would never fit without, and the best to use, clear builders construction silicone.

ahhh silicone is there anything that this wonder product cant do lez i am a convert to it i use it more than glue or anything now!
Chris