Mark & Sheeley is right, the TEC is voltage sensing relay so it provides it's own "intellignece" as to when it should turn on and off. There is no need to wire it to the altenator, acc feed, timer or any other trigger voltage. That's the beauty of a VSR. Dead simply.
As far as I can tell from endless hours of surfing the TEC is by far the best compromise solution. It's not the ulitmate solution but it will work perfectly well for most people.
You can get the TEC from Discount Towing Supplies on Ebay here 190047041645
There is nothing wrong with doing it another way but my personal feeling is why make it more difficult that it is or more expensive than it needs to be. With a VSR all you need is one wire connecting the batteries, one relay and two fuses.
Since the TEC3M is only rated at 30A (and consequently your charge circut should be fused at less than this rating); if you really flatten your leisure battery then you will likely blow a fuse when it starts to charge.
If blowing fuses is an issue for you, it may not be depending on how you use your battery, then fit a high current VSR. Yamaha found a company called Redarc in OZ that can ship them over here for about £60. They do a 100A or 200A version http://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start.htm or try a BEP one http://www.bepmarine.com/showproduct.cfm?productid=12. The BEP one is avaliable in this country and costs about £60 too if you shop around. There is someone on the forum with one but I can't remember who it is.
There is a way around this which I believe others have done. If you use a higher current relay, cabling, etc for the charge circuit you can use the TEC as a trigger for the higher current relay. Basically you use the intelligence of the TEC and the current rating of a high power relay.
split relay charge
Moderators: Doone, westonwarrior
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Mark & Shelly
These really would do the job,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=018
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=018
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ParkerNorris
- Bongonaut
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:28 pm
- Location: Willington
That Tecsup unit looks like a Nagares relay with a Tecsup sticker:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Autoleads-PC4-30- ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Autoleads-PC4-30- ... dZViewItem
Paul & Lara
It's 'Our' Bongo; not his, not hers...
It's 'Our' Bongo; not his, not hers...
thanks mark & shelly and corblimey for all your imput,
i think i will be going with the tec relay, but i dont want the hasle of changing the fuses every time or having to take the battery off to charge as i hope to be doing alot of wild camping this year.
so i like the idea of using the tec one along side a higher amp one,so by doing it this way, will illiminate the tapping into the alternator wires and the battery light wire ect?
if so how would this be wired up? am i right in thinking that by following your (corblimeys) fitting instructions, then after fitting it, it would just be a case where the live feed comes out from the tec relay to go to the positive terminal on the leisure battery, fit it to the higher amp relay then from that to the positive on the leisure battery?
ive knicked your pic and edited it to show you what i mean
i think i will be going with the tec relay, but i dont want the hasle of changing the fuses every time or having to take the battery off to charge as i hope to be doing alot of wild camping this year.
so i like the idea of using the tec one along side a higher amp one,so by doing it this way, will illiminate the tapping into the alternator wires and the battery light wire ect?
if so how would this be wired up? am i right in thinking that by following your (corblimeys) fitting instructions, then after fitting it, it would just be a case where the live feed comes out from the tec relay to go to the positive terminal on the leisure battery, fit it to the higher amp relay then from that to the positive on the leisure battery?
ive knicked your pic and edited it to show you what i mean
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pippin
Parker:
You're right they do look the same but sadly they aren't.
The Nagares item is a standard relay. Take a look at the cirucuit diagram on the front and you'll see it has a +ve and -ve input for the relay coil.
A voltage sensing relay doedn't have a seperate +ve input for the coil.
If you look closer at the Tecsup you'll see it only has a single spade for the -ve compared to the Nag which has a +ve & -ve spade for the relay coil.
Waycar:
Pippin is right your circuit won't work but this one should. Sorry if it looks like it was drawn by a 4 year old.
The red block highlights the high current charge circuit. If you disregard the smart relay for one moemnt you'll notice that it is exactly the same as the previous circuit but the smart relay (VSR) has been replaced by a standard relay. The standard relay should have a suitable current rating to handle the initial demand of a flat leisure battery. Let's say at least 100A just to be safe. Now take a look at the VSR, this time it is used to switch on the coil of the high current charge relay and thus engergising the charge relay. The charge relay completes the connection between batteries and the leisure battery can charge from the starter battery.
That's the theory anyway. I haven't tried this myself btw.
I really would give the TEC a go first. If it starts to cause a problem then rewire it with heavy duty cable and a high currrent relay.
To clarify you will need to uprate the cable and fuses to handle the higher current too.
If you're note 100% sure what you're trying to achieve and how to go about it I'd would suggest you stick with my previous instructions.
You're right they do look the same but sadly they aren't.
The Nagares item is a standard relay. Take a look at the cirucuit diagram on the front and you'll see it has a +ve and -ve input for the relay coil.
A voltage sensing relay doedn't have a seperate +ve input for the coil.
If you look closer at the Tecsup you'll see it only has a single spade for the -ve compared to the Nag which has a +ve & -ve spade for the relay coil.
Waycar:
Pippin is right your circuit won't work but this one should. Sorry if it looks like it was drawn by a 4 year old.
The red block highlights the high current charge circuit. If you disregard the smart relay for one moemnt you'll notice that it is exactly the same as the previous circuit but the smart relay (VSR) has been replaced by a standard relay. The standard relay should have a suitable current rating to handle the initial demand of a flat leisure battery. Let's say at least 100A just to be safe. Now take a look at the VSR, this time it is used to switch on the coil of the high current charge relay and thus engergising the charge relay. The charge relay completes the connection between batteries and the leisure battery can charge from the starter battery.
That's the theory anyway. I haven't tried this myself btw.
I really would give the TEC a go first. If it starts to cause a problem then rewire it with heavy duty cable and a high currrent relay.
To clarify you will need to uprate the cable and fuses to handle the higher current too.
If you're note 100% sure what you're trying to achieve and how to go about it I'd would suggest you stick with my previous instructions.
If you fancy doing a simple bit of plumbing, then fit a make on rise oil pressure switch to drive a decent relay.
Easy to wire, reliable, and works for ever more.
Otherwise use Corblimey's circuit above except I don't see the need for 2 fuses in the heavy current circuit unless
you're a belt and braces man.
Easy to wire, reliable, and works for ever more.
Otherwise use Corblimey's circuit above except I don't see the need for 2 fuses in the heavy current circuit unless
you're a belt and braces man.
Waycar:
Why not just use the BEP relay? Rated to 100A and costs £54.53 inc VAT & del.
You can get it here http://www.quaywestmarine.co.uk/products.asp?recid=568
I looked back at one of my old threads http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... php?t=9916 about it. Timhum was the other member who's fitted one.
Patnben:
Nowt wrong with braces, they match me flat cap. Seriously though, you're probably right.
Interesting twist with the oil pressure switch! Personally I prefer the VSR since it's been designed for the job; I prefer electricity to plumbing and the oil pressure switch is more complexity than I care for. Can't beat two bits of wire, a fuse (or two) and a VSR for simplicity.
That's the whole point really. This topic comes up regularly with pretty much the same questions / issues / problems. If you fit a VSR the task is very simple and there should be no problems. The job can be done in under an hour by anyone who's competent enough to cut and crimp wire.
Seems to me the only real choice to make is go for a high current charge circuit of the lower current circuit.
Buy a 30A TEC relay for about £12 and you should be ok. Go for a BEP 100A relay for £56 and you will be ok.
Why not just use the BEP relay? Rated to 100A and costs £54.53 inc VAT & del.
You can get it here http://www.quaywestmarine.co.uk/products.asp?recid=568
I looked back at one of my old threads http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... php?t=9916 about it. Timhum was the other member who's fitted one.
Patnben:
Nowt wrong with braces, they match me flat cap. Seriously though, you're probably right.
Interesting twist with the oil pressure switch! Personally I prefer the VSR since it's been designed for the job; I prefer electricity to plumbing and the oil pressure switch is more complexity than I care for. Can't beat two bits of wire, a fuse (or two) and a VSR for simplicity.
That's the whole point really. This topic comes up regularly with pretty much the same questions / issues / problems. If you fit a VSR the task is very simple and there should be no problems. The job can be done in under an hour by anyone who's competent enough to cut and crimp wire.
Seems to me the only real choice to make is go for a high current charge circuit of the lower current circuit.
Buy a 30A TEC relay for about £12 and you should be ok. Go for a BEP 100A relay for £56 and you will be ok.
well corblimey..............i have to take me hat off to ya, thought i had found uk supplier for the tecsup, but turns out they dont sell them now as they wasnt up to par with the bep ones, so they discontinued them.
anyway, the site is called merlin equipment, they have some nice split charging gear, the path maker sound good. well got a few prices off them when i phoned them and they were a tad expensive compared to yours
http://www.merlinequipment.com/producti ... &cat_id=60
at the bottom scroll down and read the pdf files. the 710-200amp vsr, but they dont do that now, they only do a 300amp version, at £103 excluding vat, dont know about delivery cost ect, but i still think its worth the money as you can turn the switch and use both batteries in parallel
anyway, the site is called merlin equipment, they have some nice split charging gear, the path maker sound good. well got a few prices off them when i phoned them and they were a tad expensive compared to yours
http://www.merlinequipment.com/producti ... &cat_id=60
at the bottom scroll down and read the pdf files. the 710-200amp vsr, but they dont do that now, they only do a 300amp version, at £103 excluding vat, dont know about delivery cost ect, but i still think its worth the money as you can turn the switch and use both batteries in parallel
Waycar:
This is a well trodden path for me I looked all over the web for these things. I rang Merlin up and spoke to them directly, as you say "a tad expensive". I also emailed Tecsup in France and they gave me an alternative supplier but I can't remeber who it was now.
My conclusion was the BEP if you want value for money and high current switching.
I still plumped for the TEC3M though and it's working a treat
This is a well trodden path for me I looked all over the web for these things. I rang Merlin up and spoke to them directly, as you say "a tad expensive". I also emailed Tecsup in France and they gave me an alternative supplier but I can't remeber who it was now.
My conclusion was the BEP if you want value for money and high current switching.
I still plumped for the TEC3M though and it's working a treat
well finally bought my split charge relay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/180-100-AMP-INTEL ... dZViewItem
what amp wire would be best and what size fuses would i need?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/180-100-AMP-INTEL ... dZViewItem
what amp wire would be best and what size fuses would i need?