Engine cut out

[mikexgough]

PM sent RE:settings

[ziggi]

Okay an update.

Firstly, sorry I forgot to mention on the first posting that the fuel filter was replaced about 6 weeks ago.

I’ve now changed both valve switches mentioned above (the right hand one finally blew on Sat’) and the plunger appears to be working I.E. it now engages prior to start, and returns half way and then off, and it stays engaged for a longer amount of time. That sounds correct, going by the comments above. I tested it out with the Aircon off as advised. I’m still wondering if the plunger needs adjusting, as mentioned above, there seems to be a lot of thread on the back, and when it’s in the ‘warm / off’ position there’s 10mm gap between tread end and contact plate of throttle cable.

BUT, it still cut out on Sunday morning, but not Sunday afternoon? This morning I tried a different approach to starting, I didn't leave it so long to warm up, upon approaching the 'cut out corner' (as it's now become known) the rev's did drop from 1750 - 2000, but stayed at the 750 - 900 mark, but it didn't cut out. Having limited Engine Mech' knowledge, I'm guessing the Choke valves were still engaged and so I'm happy that they are working now.

A couple of things mentioned on here that I’ve checked.
a) I’ve check for fuel / leaks and can’t see any.
b) I park on flat ground, so that shouldn’t be an issue.
c) It’s a standard model, not the ‘winter pack’ 2 battery version.

Pumps? Pumps have been mentioned a couple of times on here & PM's, so I’ll now follow up on the links etc on here. I really don’t know how they work, so I have a couple of questions on the pump suggestion,

a) Is the Diesel Injector Pump same as Fuel Pump?
b) If it was a pump, would it not be running poor all the time rather than just on cold start? When it’s warm, it runs ‘sweet as’ as they say here in NZ.
c) I’m guessing pumps are expensive, should I first visit a scrap yard? I know there are no guarantees, but is it worth a try first?
d) The van has a slight ‘knocking’ noise on some first start ups (This last for a couple of Min's if that) I’ve had it checked and been advised by a previous garage it was the belts and to keep spraying them, which I will say tends to ‘quieten’ the noise for a short while (I’m now thinking this was & is wrong, and intend to follow up based on a PM from Mike about timing belts & Pump). I’ve never noticed a relation between knocking and cutting out, so I’ll keep an eye on that so see if they happen together. Could that be the pump, and thus contaminating injectors and causing stalling?

One thing I’ve noticed, it appears that the engine ‘misses’ when warming up when I get a engine stall, it may be not linked but it seems that if I start the engine and it doesn’t miss, then it doesn’t seem to stall. Also, on the mornings it misses, it tends to exhaust more than when it runs smooth on start up.

I know that's sounds a lot to take in, but thanks again for all the advice.

Andy

[ziggi]

Symptoms been on here many times........ I have always diagnosed Diesel Injector Pump and mostly been correct.... You could I guess start and try cleaning it and the injectors by running a new diesel filter full of injector cleaner......then if it still stalls like you say......I favour the Diesel Injector Pump as your problem....

This Web Link gives all the information on Bosch/Zexel pumps I can give you the Part No./ Diagrams if needed.....for Bosch/Zexel cross reference ......Just remember.....Zexel are the Japanese name for Bosch....

Thank you Mike,

As mentioned on my previous post, I think I'm going to have to go down this road now (As you advised in the first place) So any info' you may have or can put me onto would be very helpful. Part No's would be good, there's a scrap yard down the road from me that has a Mazda Bandit (Been told they have same engine here in NZ) do you think I should go get the pump, or is the pump an item that needs recon' prior to being fitted?

Thanks again.

Andy

[Northern Bongolow]

I’m still wondering if the plunger needs adjusting, as mentioned above, there seems to be a lot of thread on the back, and when it’s in the ‘warm / off’ position there’s 10mm gap between tread end and contact plate of throttle cable.

dont really understand this coment,are you saying that the end of the cable when fully warmed up does not go to the plunger and press it in?. if it doesnt then it should do.this (i think)tells the ecu that everything is off(choke).if this doesnt happen the ecu may set the pumps internals to a different state,if you see what i mean.

[ziggi]

I’m still wondering if the plunger needs adjusting, as mentioned above, there seems to be a lot of thread on the back, and when it’s in the ‘warm / off’ position there’s 10mm gap between tread end and contact plate of throttle cable.

dont really understand this coment,are you saying that the end of the cable when fully warmed up does not go to the plunger and press it in?. if it doesnt then it should do.this (i think)tells the ecu that everything is off(choke).if this doesnt happen the ecu may set the pumps internals to a different state,if you see what i mean.

Ok,

Before I turn the key the Plunger is at it's outer most, this is also the 'warm' position when not in use. When it's in this position there is a lot of thread out the back, and approx 10mm gap between contact tip and the plate it pushes against when it's engaged.

When I turn the key, the plunger engages the plate and pushes the throttle cable to engage choke, then after a short while returns to mid-position (before it turns off, warm postion above) at the mid-position, it's very hard to see if it's making any contact with the plate on the throttle cable, I 'think' it's not, therefore I think it may need to be ajusted so that contact is being made at this mid-position.

I hope that helps, maybe if I can get a photo posted up that would help explain, any idea how I do that please.

It's one of those things that when you see it, you say OH that what he means.

Thanks for taking the time to help me here, I really am grateful

Andy

[Northern Bongolow]

hi a photo or better 3 photos,1 with choke on,1 half way,and 1 off ,would be good.but im like you i cannot do this either,so the best way forward may be to do it on the revs.
when the choke is on the revs should be just over the mark at approx 800revs(note there are 3 divisions between each section)then it warms, after 2 mins it drops to about 700 revs,then when it reaches normal running temp(this can vary depending on surrounding air temp)mine can take up to 5-10 mins depending on whether its moving or stationary.this last stage it comes completely off and pushes the plunger. i have the completly off revs set at bang on the 2 thirds mark(warmed up tick over) if you stand and listen/wait the first stage off is easy to hear.but the last stage to off is more difficult to hear.you may need to set yours slightly higher revs than mine as mines a manual g/box.for an auto it may need to be slightly higher to compensate for the load when engaging drive.
hope this helps in a none scientific way

[francophile1947]

I hope that helps, maybe if I can get a photo posted up that would help explain, any idea how I do that please.

Details in the Guidance Section here http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =42&t=9285

[Northern Bongolow]

thanks john

[ziggi]

Hello again, I’ve now taken a picture of the choke plunger screw which engages the throttle cable plate. (Please excuse quality)

The first pic’ is in the ‘Full on’ position
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff4 ... sition.jpg
The second pic’ is in the ‘Mid on’ position
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff4 ... sition.jpg
The third pic’ is in the ‘Off or warm’ position
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff4 ... sition.jpg

The rev’ count doesn’t change very much at all, 800 ish throughout the whole process. Between ‘Full on’ and ‘Mid on’ there is a ‘psssst’ of air during the change over, from ‘Mid on’ to ‘Off or warm’ there is no sound, but engine tone changes for a very slight period. It all looks and sounds fine during the whole process, so I think they are working ok.
On these pictures you can clearly see what I mean about the remaining thread out the back of plunger screw, seems a lot. Also, because there is no change in the Revs during the process, I continue to wonder if this screw is at the right setting?
I would have thought, at the start the ‘Full on’ would give 900 ish, then it would drop back to 850 - 800 during the ‘Mid on’ and then drop to 750 when in the ‘Off or warm’ position. This is based on the excellent “none scientific way” explanation from Northern Bongolow above.
I don’t claim to know engines, so point it out if I’m wrong here, please as I like to know how things work, or in this case ‘should work’

During the last week, I’ve absolutely sure that there is a relation between the Engine missing & excessive exhaust on start up and the cutting out. I.E. When I start up, (so far) if the engine runs ‘smooth’ on start up = no cut out, if engine misses (only once) = cut out.
Again, if this were a ‘pump’ issue would this be a symptom of that? But, again if it were ‘pump’ related, why only on cold start and not when running?

I hope the pic’s help, and yet again, thanks.

Andy

[ziggi]

This Bl**dy van!!!!!!!!!
It's been fine for a short while, and not it's being the worst it's ever been. It's started to just cut out now as I'm going along. It just loses power, I push on the throttle and nothing, just dead, it will then either cut right out and die so I have to start it again, or on a couple of times it has suddenly recovered and runs fine.
Again, this is only from a cold start and when it's running 'warm' it's runs fine.
Whats' the next step to try?
Replace fuel pump?
Clean injectors then maybe replace fuel pump?

I friend back the UK has suggest I get the 'Crank sensor' checked?????? I have no idea what that is, he also said the temp' sensor could be faulty that's why it's only when cold?

Any suggestions on next step? I've mentioned before, if it's the fuel pump, wouldn't it be running poor all the time rather than just when cold?
Mike has suggested the Diesel fuel pump before on this thread, so do I have to buy new, second hand recon or try a scrap yard for this item?

Thanks 'again'

Andy

[Northern Bongolow]

hi sorry for the delay in replying to your pics.
it looks to me that the problem lies with the second stage set up.and your stalling when warming up also suggests this.
the first stage,(full choke--approx 850-900 revs only lasts for max 1-2 minuites.)
second stage (half choke--approx 800-850 revs lasts until the ecu is happy its warm,this could be up to 5-10 mins depending on ambient temps etc.
third stage is off,and the plunger gets pushed at the right hand side.

your pics look like the second stage is not set up right,it looks to me like the plunger on the right is wound out to far,so may be making contact to early and telling the ecu its warmed up,but the motor isnt. also the cable may need taking to the left,giving a longer travel on the inner cable before it meets the plunger.
dont get to hung up on how it works,set it by ear/revs.
what the system is trying to do if set up correctly is keep the revs at a predetermined level while the engine warms up,just like the old days when you used to pull the cable fully out,then as it warmed up you push it back in a little at a time,but if you push it in to early(before its warmed up) it used to stall.

[ziggi]

[quote="Northern Bongolow"]hi sorry for the delay in replying to your pics.
quote]

Thank you, please don't feel you have to say sorry, I'm just really grateful for the advice.

I'll take a look at the set-up, adjust as I can and see how it goes.

THANK YOU again.

Andy

[ziggi]

@ Northern Bongolow, sent you a PM. Hope you get it, for some reason it seems not to be in my sent box yet, just sat in my out box waiting to go?

Andy