Coolants are not just coolants!

[scanner]

Found this whilst checking the suitability of the coolant concentrate I bought in Germany last year.
This is adamant on which coolants should be mixed and which shouldn't.
http://www.performancechemicals.basf.co ... iscibility

Also some handy tips....

It is essential that you use premium engine coolants and follow a few simple tips on use, in order to ensure that your cooling system operates reliably over the long term.

* When carrying out repairs, always replace the coolant in its entirety; flush and clean the cooling system first
* In the case of vehicles that are six or more years old, it is advisable to replace the coolant every three to four years
* Do not use engine coolant only as a winter product, but as a year-round product
* Never use coolant concentrates undiluted
* Never mix coolants based on different technologies
* Use clean water
* Always observe the correct mixing ratio (mixing chart on the label)
* Always heed the vehicle manufacturer’s instructions



Q - Why do engine coolants have to be changed?
A - Corrosive molecules result from the degradation of the ethylene glycol contained in the coolant and the gradual degradation of the additives and inhibitors. This degradation is caused by the high temperatures occurring in the engine cooling system. That is why the coolant in a vehicle has to be changed regularly after 3-4 years.

Q - Can engine coolant concentrates be used undiluted?
A - NO. All engine coolant concentrates on the market must be diluted with water to ensure they provide the required protection. An undiluted coolant product would not remove enough heat from the engine, resulting in overheating of the engine. Undiluted concentrates can also freeze in the winter.

Q - Can “normal” tap water be used for diluting the coolant?
A - Clean water with hardness values of 0-20°dH on the German hardness scale (1°dH = 0.1783 mmol/l) can be used to dilute the coolant without any problem. If the water is any harder, it is advisable to mix it with distilled water.

Q - How important are vehicle manufacturers’ recommendations on engine coolant packaging and labels?
A - Automobile manufacturers do not “recommend” engine coolants; they only issue clearance or official approvals for use. You should therefore pay attention to the clearances and approvals that have actually been issued when you are purchasing engine coolants.

[ScubaBongo]

Great info, and good timing in my case too.

Does anyone know of a sensibley priced, easily available coolant that is suitable for the Bongo? I assume its a red one!

OAT coolants (usually reddish-violet): here, organic salts are responsible for protecting against corrosion.
Opel, PSA and vehicles made by the VW Group up until 2007 work with this technology. The coolants used in most Japanese vehicles are very similar to this technology.

The corresponding BASF products are:
Glysantin® Alu Protect / G30
Glysantin® Protect G33
Glysantin® Protect G34

I'm sure the BASF one is pricey in the UK..

How many litres do I need for a change? The clubs helpsheet suggests 10litres.

ta

[ScubaBongo]

Think it says "two 5 litre tubs", but that's probably undiluted...

How much do you dilute? 50-50? therefore 6 ish litres required, plus some for bleeding/spilling?!

[Manny]

13.5 litres I think for a full change, not sure where the 10 litres comes from

13.5 litres is a full change, but I read here somewhere and then found out by doing it myself that unless some pipes are removed, all that can be drained is about 10 litres. So only 10 litres can be put back in. I put in 5 litres of coolant and 5 litres of ionised water and the system was full. When I first did it I panicked thinking I've got 3.5 litres of air blocks, so I did a search on here and found that someone else had the same expirience. I have been to Cornwall and back and temp has been ok.

Manny

[missfixit70]

It's worth taking off the lower hoses to drain it all & get it all flushed through IMO.
See what you mean about the 10 litres now I just used a 5 litre container last time, which gives a concentration between 30 & 40% which I consider perfectly adequate, but that's just my opinion. Always best to follow the instructions Pretty sure I just used the blue long life stuff from my local motor factor.

[scanner]

Pretty sure I just used the blue long life stuff from my local motor factor.

BUT - from what I've read Blue/Green (as it seems to be called now) isn't the longlife, it's the ordinary.

The BASF one to buy (if you can get it over here) is

Glysantin® Alu Protect / G30

Silicate-free premium engine coolant
Concentrate = dilute before use
Color of the product: reddish-violet

Officially approved for:
Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, MAN, Mercedes Sprinter Diesel,
Mini Diesel (built as from 2007), MTU, Porsche, Seat, Skoda, VW

Also protects: Chevrolet, Citroën, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar, Kia, Land Rover,
Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Opel, Peugeot, Renault, Saab, Suzuki, Toyota

Available in 1.5-liter bottles, 60- and 210-liter drums

[Ron Miel]

Well, I hesitate to appear overly cynical but it looks like just an excellent plug* by BASF for their latest most expensive coolant, at the expense of all others - panic for anybody who's got blue or green coolant.

*(The link in the first posting, that is - not the posting, of course.)

Our friends at Wheelquick, who surely see far more Bongo cooling systems (and the results with different coolants) than do most subscribers to this forum, advised me to use "any green long life coolant" when they topped mine up, as that was what it came with from a coolant change at Imperial, and that was what Wheelquick had ready pre-mixed. I infer that there's two quality Bongo specialists that don't subscribe to the BASF "use our most expensive" line.

Following Wheelquick's advice, I'm using Comma Xstream Green Extralife: http://www.commaoil.com/product%20Pages ... mgreen.htm. 6 litres recently cost me 14 quid.

The Comma product includes BASF Glysantin - but presumably not their latest Glysantin® Dynamic Protect / G40, which costs almost 27 quid for the same amount, from Germany via eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASF-GLYSANTIN-G4 ... m153.l1262

[dandywarhol]

Blue/green isn't longlife - should be changed every 2/3 years. Pink/orange organic is longlife - should last a bit longer

Problem then is folks won't look at their hoses/connections etc. so often........................

[Ron Miel]

Well, I hesitate to appear overly cynical but it looks like just an excellent plug* by BASF for their latest most expensive coolant, at the expense of all others - panic for anybody who's got blue or green coolant.

*(The link in the first posting, that is - not the posting, of course.)

Our friends at Wheelquick, who surely see far more Bongo cooling systems (and the results with different coolants) than do most subscribers to this forum, advised me to use "any green long life coolant" when they topped mine up, as that was what it came with from a coolant change at Imperial, and that was what Wheelquick had ready pre-mixed. I infer that there's two quality Bongo specialists that don't subscribe to the BASF "use our most expensive" line.

Following Wheelquick's advice, I'm using Comma Xstream Green Extralife: http://www.commaoil.com/product%20Pages ... mgreen.htm. 6 litres recently cost me 14 quid.

The Comma product includes BASF Glysantin - but presumably not their latest Glysantin® Dynamic Protect / G40, which costs almost 27 quid for the same amount, from Germany via eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASF-GLYSANTIN-G4 ... m153.l1262

Just read the small print at Comma. Their green long life stuff contains BASF Glysantin G48, which in its original BASF form costs £23.80 per 6 litres, from the same ex Germany eBay store. According to the manufacturer listings there, neither G40 nor G48 is directly Mazda approved.

[Ron Miel]

Blue/green isn't longlife - should be changed every 2/3 years. Pink/orange organic is longlife - should last a bit longer

Problem then is folks won't look at their hoses/connections etc. so often........................

Understood, and presumably the 3 years specified by Comma for their "extra life" product is a bit longer than ordinary life blue-green - due to the addition of Glysantin G48 perhaps? Mind you, BASF seem to specify 3-4 years for ALL their coolant products anyway, blue, green and red, so what's the truth? I'll stick to Wheelquick's advice for the moment, as they've no axe to grind (or product development cost to recover).

[flippa]

very informative post there scanner......i take it you purchased the larger drum

[scanner]

I am coming to the conclusion that all this explains a great deal.

Paraphrasing that information from Bluecol.

Blue/Green antifreeze does not mix with long life antifreeze. Never mix the two colours in a cooling system. The organic acids in Red/Orange types will cause precipitation of silicates in the green type and corrosion protection is greatly reduced.

Red/Orange type antifreezes are suitable for up to five years or 100,000 miles. They can also be used in many older vehicles if all of the Blue/Green antifreeze is flushed from the system and is replaced with the Red/Orange antifreeze. The lifespan of long life antifreeze is about four years or 60,000 miles in older cars.

So for "precipitation of silicates" read "crud dumped in your cooling system".

Does something sound familiar there to anybody who has had cooling system problems.

From what I've heard elsewhere on another forum where the subject of mixing coolants has been discussed Main Dealers have stated that there is nothing wrong with mixing Blue/Green with Red/Orange coolants.

If Main Dealers are so ignorant, what chance is there for the poor old driver?

[scanner]

very informative post there scanner......i take it you purchased the larger drum

I wish I had at the price I paid for 1.5 litre bottles.

[scanner]

Well, I hesitate to appear overly cynical but it looks like just an excellent plug* by BASF for their latest most expensive coolant, at the expense of all others - panic for anybody who's got blue or green coolant.

They don't say don't use it - they say don't MIX it.

Our friends at Wheelquick, who surely see far more Bongo cooling systems (and the results with different coolants) than do most subscribers to this forum, advised me to use "any green long life coolant" when they topped mine up, as that was what it came with from a coolant change at Imperial, and that was what Wheelquick had ready pre-mixed. I infer that there's two quality Bongo specialists that don't subscribe to the BASF "use our most expensive" line.

The G30 isn't by any means their most expensive coolant.

Following Wheelquick's advice, I'm using Comma Xstream Green Extralife: http://www.commaoil.com/product%20Pages ... mgreen.htm. 6 litres recently cost me 14 quid.

The Comma product includes BASF Glysantin - but presumably not their latest Glysantin® Dynamic Protect / G40, which costs almost 27 quid for the same amount, from Germany via eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASF-GLYSANTIN-G4 ... m153.l1262

Where is G40 mentioned Ron?

I said G30!! So I'm lost as to why you think G40 which IS more expensive is recommended.


Where does it say MAZDA here?

Glysantin® Dynamic Protect / G40

Officially approved for:
Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda, VW built as from 2008

Recommended by the above vehicle manufacturers since 2005

Or are you using it in one of those makes (all VW/Audi Group!) made since 2005?

[bigdaddycain]

After a complete and utter flushing of my system (i've had it done twice now) i replaced with the longlife red coolant to a ratio of around 35% as per the instructions on the bottle...Not the vehicle manufacturer ratio, as i replaced with a DIFFERENT coolant, from a DIFFERENT coolant manufacturer.

Some confusion can occur here too... The difference between green/blue/red coolants differ depending on it's point of origin. I believe that different coloured coolants is acceptable in the states, but not here, or in japan. And our (european) coolants differ in the type of inhibitors from japan's also.

I'm content (and so is mike at wheelquick), that my bongo is well up to the mark.