240v hook up

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Re: 240v hook up

Post by Bob » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:14 pm

Now there's a double act. :lol:
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by g8dhe » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:41 pm

To do the job correctly you will also need a small consumer unit with Isolation switch and RCD, and don't forget to earth the incoming earth connection from the chassis plug to the chassis as close to the entry point as possible keep all internal cabling in convoluted tubing to guard against abrasion.
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:41 am

g8dhe wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:41 pm To do the job correctly you will also need a small consumer unit with Isolation switch and RCD, and don't forget to earth the incoming earth connection from the chassis plug to the chassis as close to the entry point as possible keep all internal cabling in convoluted tubing to guard against abrasion.
Hi Geoff. I'd welcome your advice re my simple hookup proposal. The Sunncamp hookup i currently have has a 4 x rcd protected gang and doesnt earth to the vehicle (its intended for general camping use). So i reasoned that if i just provided a hookup connector on the Bongo and ran it to an rcd protected 13 amp socket i'd be doing much the same thing. The socket is going to go on a removable unit so having to add an earth to that would make removing it more 'clunky'.
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by g8dhe » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:11 am

Its ESSENTIAL that the incoming earth wire is connected to the chassis of the vehicle in a reliable and permanent way! The reason being that any fault that causes the chassis of the vehicle to come into contact with a live will NOT otherwise cause the RCD in the pillar to operate, earthing via the tyres is not adequate for the sort of currents involved, its only suitable for discharging static electricity. If the chassis is NOT earthed then it can rise up in potential until someone steps in/out of the vehicle at that point the person has their feet on the ground and their hand on the grab or chassis as they enter so the shock current passes thru the core of the body including the heart this will cause the RCD in the post to operate but be assured having 30mA pass thru the body core for 10+ms is NOT a nice experience! If the chassis is correctly earthed then the as soon as the fault develops then the RCD in the post will operate without having a human (or animal) in the way!

This link will help explain https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.9.1.htm
also https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.9.2.htm and
this one https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/102 ... ons-mo.pdf
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:31 am

Thanks Geoff and i think i get that. But lets look at it laterally. If i just used my Sunncamp ready made 4 x 13amp rcd lead in a tent, will the rcd protection work (it should otherwise why did i pay good money for the safety hookup lead everyone says you must have!). If i now instead put the end of that lead inside the Bongo to plug things into, what has changed? If nothing has changed then why can't i make up a similar lead for dedicated hookup into the Bongo. Confused I am :? :lol:

P.S. my current hookup lead is v similar to the one Bob posted this link to:

https://www.ultimateoutdoors.com/equipm ... w.ds#close
Last edited by mikeonb4c on Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:34 am

Markas wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:09 pm
Bob wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:02 pm I can only find one with that part number, but if you're looking to hook up th UK mains you will need 230 or 240v.
What Bob said...
Here's a link to one on the 'bay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maypole-MP594 ... 1925309839
They keep them in stock at my local camping accessories shop so shouldn't be too hard to find.
Bob - following on from your link, would this do as a cheaper alternative to the Maypole one?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2679483144
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by Bob » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:07 am

Pretty sure it was Markas posted the link. =D>

I can't see why that wouldn't be fine, just a flat plate to mount it somewhere handy, but I would take technical advice from Geoff. 8)

Thing is with permanent fixing there is a small risk that a wire could chaffe through and the electrickery would grab the opportunity to have some fun with you, hence the need to earth to chassis.

I've also found that anything mounted below the back door step will contact Mother Earth at some point (the big round globe thing) so I'd try and mount it above ot to one side. :wink:
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:22 am

Bob wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:07 am Pretty sure it was Markas posted the link. =D>

I can't see why that wouldn't be fine, just a flat plate to mount it somewhere handy, but I would take technical advice from Geoff. 8)

Thing is with permanent fixing there is a small risk that a wire could chaffe through and the electrickery would grab the opportunity to have some fun with you, hence the need to earth to chassis.

I've also found that anything mounted below the back door step will contact Mother Earth at some point (the big round globe thing) so I'd try and mount it above ot to one side. :wink:
Thanks Bob. Its an interesting one. I'll wait to get Geoff's take on it as he is THE man and i'm not about to ignore his advice. Just need to understand the issues here as if it gets fiddly doing a 'permanent' installation it could make a nonsense out of the quickly removable unit idea and i might as well just use my sunncamp rcd lead in the Bongo :roll:
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by g8dhe » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:36 am

mikeonb4c wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:31 am Thanks Geoff and i think i get that. But lets look at it laterally. If i just used my Sunncamp ready made 4 x 13amp rcd lead in a tent, will the rcd protection work (it should otherwise why did i pay good money for the safety hookup lead everyone says you must have!). If i now instead put the end of that lead inside the Bongo to plug things into, what has changed? If nothing has changed then why can't i make up a similar lead for dedicated hookup into the Bongo. Confused I am :? :lol:.....
Right, several aspects so;
1. The RCD will only protect against leakage currents forward of its socket, it won't protect the cable feeding it, this is down to the RCD in the EHU Post.
2. When used in a tent camping situation, there isn't a lot of unearthed metal around you in a tent with which to make contact, hence no need for earthing the non-existing metal!
3. Once any part of the cable or sockets is inside a metal structure then the situation changes. If the metal work isn't earthed then any fault that could raise the metal's potential won't immediately cause the RCD to trip out as there is no current flowing, so anyone who then comes along and earths the metal work via their body will get a shock until the RCD trips out, its this situation that needs ALL exposed metal work to be earthed so that as soon as the fault develops the RCD trips, rather than waiting for unaware human/animal to touch the metalwork. You will find that there is a legal (or at least regulatory requirement at least) requirement that the camping devices be marked to explain that they are NOT suitable for use in a metal structure like a caravan/campervan etc.

OK given all the above, then its safety comes down to the chance that a fault develops that causes the metalwork to rise to mains voltage or similar, the chances are low but the outcome if it happens is highly dangerous and that is where a decision has to be made. A dog nosing the side of the van can easily receive a fatal shock, a young child will have a distraught mother/father chasing you around the field, if its yourself that gets the shock you will have learned a valuable lesson ;-)
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by Bob » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:40 am

Spot on Geoff. =D>

I can now see Mike in the Benny Hill part as all the Mums chase him round the camp site... :lol:
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:02 pm

Bob wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:40 am Spot on Geoff. =D>

I can now see Mike in the Benny Hill part as all the Mums chase him round the camp site... :lol:
I should be so lucky :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks++ Geoff, that makes the reasons why all very clear (i recall warnings from years back also saying never trust integrity of campsite EHUs. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Just so i understand, does this mean i should take a wire from the earth terminal of the 13amp rcd power point (or chained from all of them if there is more than one) and connect it to a suitable bare metal point on the Bongo bodywork?
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by g8dhe » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:15 pm

Yes that's another factor the reliability of the EHU Post RCD, most are good but there are some very suspect installations as well!
Its one reason I have a sensitive RCD (10mA rather than 30mA) on one of my cables at the EHU Post end so if I am at all suspect I use that cable (shortest) and then extend it if necessary, despite being much more sensitive its never tripped out on an actual site, but if I plug a tester in then it instantly trips out as the tester assumes 30mA rating!
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:41 pm

Cheers Geoff. Is my idea of how to wire the earth up correct? Don't want to be guessing it wrong!
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by g8dhe » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:31 pm

Ideally take it from the first point the incoming cable terminates in the block and earth the wire to the chassis of the van using a permanent connection. If possible screw the block itself to the van as well, to ensure that the earth wire doesn't become strained if pulled. If you look carefully on the block there is sometimes a small entry point into the block for just an earthing wire.
A bit like this one has, often the entry point may be hidden if not planned to be used, but looking inside may reveal it.
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Re: 240v hook up

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:42 pm

Fab Geoff. Armed with that knowledge i'm now good to go =D> :P
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