New door speakers

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My new speakers, i had to take off the plastic covers to fit them in i will add another one when ive filled the holes ....they sound great ...

[Dodgey]

Thanks for the heads - up Rapidescent. I went to Halfords locally, who had sold out of the GTO's. The lad there called Halfords in another town, who had one pair left and sent them over.

I mentioned that you got them for £14.99 so he smiled and did the same for me (marked at £29.99 orginally). Bargain!!

[Dodgey]

Well I installed my GTO's today and found an interesting thing - although they might seem to fit, they interfere with the door card speaker surround. The hole is not big enough to accomodate the cone and it's rubber gasket (the rubber "ring" around the edge of the speaker cone that lets it move backwards and forward). The consequence of this is that the bass you get is greatly reduced (much of the low frequency is lost) and they will distort sooner than they should do when you turn them up.

What is happening is the speaker cone gastket is being squashed against the plastic of the door card - this happens largely at the hinge side of the door.

At first they sound fine, and most would not notice it, but I'm a perfectionist (fear not, there is a way to post-fix this which I will explain late)

I noticed when I was test fitting the door card back on. I did this with good low frequency music playing (Chicane, Giants) - so I could hear if there was any interference, which I suspected there would be after measuring the hole, and the speaker before hand. As I pushed the panel/card back on tightly the speaker immediately lost the good low bass, and also most of it's "thump". It was still fairly "bassey" make no mistake, but no where near what it was capable of.

Bear in mind I trimmed the pod, and fitted the brackets in a way that absolutely minimised wasted space and I still got interference. So the chances are, if you have fitted these, you are getting it too.


Above - the door card untouched...


Above - now I've trimmed of the plastic inside the grille, AND the raised lip around the edge of the speaker hole. I did this as I suspected it would foul the speaker.


Above - the pod untouched.


Above - the pod with the "outer lip" removed to get a nice flush fit - the B&D power file makes this a 30 second job.


Above - with the supplied metal bracket fitted - one screw hole added on the bottom right. Because I've removed the lip I recover and depth loss from using this bracket. It also affords a good air seal for better bass.


Above - Speaker fitted..... with the plastic gasket protector that is shipped with. This is the key to stopping the speaker fouling with the door card. The plastic protector allows the speaker to move through it's whole range wirthout hitting anything. I'm sure it's not what it was intended for but it does a perfect job!


Above - the plastic spacer with the largest lug cut off (I scored the cut with a blade and then snapped it off) - this lug might come in useful (see later)


Above - the spacer in place - Note - I offered up the speaker to the door without the spacer and as known buy others here, it fouls on a large bolt head behind the magnet. The space neaded for it to clear it is exactly the depth of the spacer! There is no way of getting the speaker further in. If I removed the outer metal ring then the speaker would foul the bolt again.


Above - speaker fitted.

What happens now, is the door card wont' full go back on - but only just! - not enough to cause a problem. It leaves a gap at the hinge side of less than a finger thickness. This is minimal enough to allow all of the bottom "friction" lugs to snap back in, and all of the screws to go back in. The door's inside upper screw goes all the way in, and the one below it, closest to the speaker (on the door-hinge side) goes "some" of the way back in. I did mine enough to be secure, but not overtight so to not risk crashing the transparent plastic gasket protector on the speaker.

This leaves a near-finger gap, only on the inside middle fo the door..... See below...



Which you can't see from any angle as it's on the inside of the door at the hinge side.



The sound bloody fantastic!

Now - if you have most likely thrown the plastic rings out, fear not. The other solution is to put a spacer of some sort between the door card and the door where the lower "hinge-side" door screw goes in. You could use the plactic lug cut-off I mentioned earlier. You will have to space it out a little more than the way I've done it as you would not be spacing the panel in the right place - i.e. right at the speaker's edge.

There is one caveat to all this. It MAY be that the little raised lip that ran around the inside of the door card speaker hole, that I removed (in the 2nd photo), would have landed in just the right spot on the JBL speaker frame and held it away from the door card just enough to stop the unwanted contact - though I doubt it as it wasn't a very big lip at all.

It would be interesting for someone to test (who has fitted these of course!) - just pull the door card out at the bottom, and remove the two door screws on the hinge side of the door panel - this will allow you to play music with a good deep bass line, and listen to see if there is a change from when the panel is held on tight, and when it is pulled away a bit. It woudl take literally 2 mins to test.

[Simon Jones]

Brilliant write up . I've yet to fit mine (& have just bought a pair of matching 5 x 7's for the rear), so will print this out for reference.

[jaylee]

Dodgey,

I still have my clear plastic gasket protectors & the grills that came with it.. I was almost tempted to keep em on to protect the edges with the tight fit of the door card myself when installing.. But figured they may "clack" a little at high volume?
I didn't remove the lug off the black plastic spacer, i thought it helped keep the door card off the speaker the way i positioned it.. (Funny enough towards the leading door edge with the two screws.)

Thanks for the heads up.. I must admit to noticing the bottom edge of my door card coming loose, so i planned a little revamp anyway..

My music is mostly top endy heavy metal so i can't really comment on the bass response...!?

Looking forward to hearing, (excuse the pun.) on how Simon gets on with the GTO 5 x 7's for the rear...

[jaylee]

OK, had a spare couple of hours & the vans loaded up for a gig tonight, so i thought i would take a look at these door cards....

I cut the lip off the inside of the speaker hole as Dodgey says... I got no idea how i missed this the first time round..



Now here is where i decided to try something else....!??
Taking the clear packaging "gasket protector" & trimming off the facing lip with a sharp Stanley knife, i then gently & slowly trimmed it back using a sharp pair of scissors.. The bottom scissor blade close to where it juts away from the gasket when fitted... Slowly turning & trimming within a gnats chuff of its life..



As i made the first incision i was committed... I've seen this material crack & split before!!!?



A slightly snugger fit with the door card..?

Once again cheers for the heads up.... Yer granny can come back in the room now..!

[Dodgey]

Tracy Island!

.. how is the sound now? found anything with more bass and less thrash? :-p

[jaylee]

You know her too..!

I think i may have solved the un-popping bottom of the door card issue, & Machine Head sounds corking that's all i know..

[bongoloids]

Hi all,
I had a pair of nice sounding Vibe 5.25" components sat in the loft so have whacked these in the doors. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned an adapter plate to attach to the plastic ring. I purchased these off fleabay - not worth making any at this price :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150733839215? ... 1439.l2649

Trimmed the lip of the plastic ring before hand to ensure a snug fit. Screwed the mdf ring to the plastic one - haven't any pics I'm afraid, but ther outer edge of the MDF ring is a perfect fit on the plastic mounting. Screwed the speakers to the MDF and have no problems with clearance with regards the door card. The fact that they are components rather than coaxials and therefore there are no tweeters protruding from the middle of the speaker may make a difference???

I strongly recommend the MDF rings though - saved me a lot of aggro.

I've mounted the crossovers in a convienent space in the door and mounted the tweeters by the door handle. The JBL's from Halfords are a superb bargain - but certainly with the speakers being mounted so low in the front doors of the Bongo, I'd say components are the way to go. Mounting the tweeter higher up only improves things.

My speakers were an ebay special - originally for another car. £21 from memory.

[P-Med]

Hi Bongo audio fanatics,

I've just finished installing a new head unit and a subwoofer. The door speakers are now high-pass filtered at 100Hz, but they still distort when I turn the system up loud, so I'm thinking of following in your footsteps with the door speaker replacement. However, I'd like to mount the tweeters higher up. Does anyone know if the tweeters come out of the JBL GTO628's so that they can be mounted elsewhere?

Thanks.

[Dodgey]

No they are fixed tweeters. They rotate but cerainly dont come off.

Bongloid - the protruding tweeter on the GTOs is not the problem, its the depth/size of the magnet - which dictates how far out the cones are. This in turn means the cone "edge" hits the door card. Nothing you can do about that other than move the door card away, which i did. (you can fit the door card on flush and the tweeter fits fine, its just the woofer gasket that fouls)

Your componenets are a nice solution.

[jaylee]

Hi Bongo audio fanatics,

I've just finished installing a new head unit and a subwoofer. The door speakers are now high-pass filtered at 100Hz, but they still distort when I turn the system up loud, so I'm thinking of following in your footsteps with the door speaker replacement. However, I'd like to mount the tweeters higher up. Does anyone know if the tweeters come out of the JBL GTO628's so that they can be mounted elsewhere?

Thanks.

No, the tweeters cannot be removed from the GTO's... They can however be twisted to angle..! (Dodgy beat me to it.)
I angled mine up & slightly back. To my taste they add a little sparkle.. Possibly a little too much. I don't think i would want a tweeter up to close.. On the whole, i'm V happy with the improvement of sound.
There is also a button on the tweeter for HF cut 0dB/-3dB?? Someone correct me if i'm wrong on the last point!?

[Dodgey]

yeah - the button knocks 3db off the tweeter - which is a lot. Probably designed for installs where the speaker is closer to the ear.

[jaylee]

I think you can pretty much guess my taste in music.... Loud distorted guitars, 20 Marlboro a day vocals & brutal drum blast beats...

I've had the same car stereo for the last 12 years. It was in my previous van & have no complaints..

I have a JVC KDS741R 45w X4 so nothing too demanding on the 60w RMS - 160w peak GTO's.?
JBL tend to be renowned for taking a fair bit of punishment (or used to be!) & they really livened up the sound of my ageing stereo... Which i have no intention of replacing.


So, imagine my surprise when i start getting a rattle/buzz & a little distortion in my passenger side speaker...?!!!

Further investigation & close examination revealed this...



Yep, that's right.. The gasket has split!

By the gods of Valhalla i shall be contacting the supplier for a replacement.

[Dodgey]

Ooops! - could that be where the speaker was crushed against the door plastic?

btw - the rating of the amp in your stereo and the rating of the speakers is not quite as clear cut as you'd imagine.

The 4 x 25Watt is almost certainly not RMS (the only figure that is "honest" and means something). It's probably "peak" 4 x 25 watts, which will be something like 4 x 12 watts rms, at best. Your speakers ar 60w RMS.

Even though your speakers "out-do" your amp, you'll still get horrible distortion. As you turn up the stereo (amp) towards its maximum power, the amplifier will distort itself (clipping). The speakers will be happy to take more, but the amp just can't deliver.

In decent systems it is common to have amps that deliver a fair whack more power than the speakers are rated at. This way you can moderate the volume to avoid meltdown, but the amp is always operating within it's perameters, so you get the best sound. Match them and your amp will get messy towards the "top" before the speakers have performed to their max.