Import Scheme Nightmare

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ramusfamily

Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by ramusfamily » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:03 pm

This was the quoted OTR price (to include cost of purchase at auction - I believe that was somewhere in the region of £2,500 but can't remember exact figure off the top of my head, shipping and related import costs, IVA costs, MOT test cost - basically exempted costs are previously unforeseen transportation costs within the UK and any repairs required to get it through the MOT which are normally minimal we believe). We agree that it seemed like a cracking deal and that there is some consolation in the fact that the first Bongo we ever set eyes on (and needless to say totally fell in love with) was one on a forecourt in Cornwall - very similar spec to the one we have bought but ready to go and it was £8k. We are not meaning to discredit the import scheme or even Algys themselves - we just feel strongly that we have a duty to put our story 'out there' to give potential buyers the other side of the story to enable everyone to make as informed a decision as possible.
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm

ramusfamily wrote:This was the quoted OTR price (to include cost of purchase at auction - I believe that was somewhere in the region of £2,500 but can't remember exact figure off the top of my head, shipping and related import costs, IVA costs, MOT test cost - basically exempted costs are previously unforeseen transportation costs within the UK and any repairs required to get it through the MOT which are normally minimal we believe). We agree that it seemed like a cracking deal and that there is some consolation in the fact that the first Bongo we ever set eyes on (and needless to say totally fell in love with) was one on a forecourt in Cornwall - very similar spec to the one we have bought but ready to go and it was £8k. We are not meaning to discredit the import scheme or even Algys themselves - we just feel strongly that we have a duty to put our story 'out there' to give potential buyers the other side of the story to enable everyone to make as informed a decision as possible.
What I would love (dream on) is if more suppliers were prepared to come on here and make their case.

You might still get in under the £8k figure with an engine from a breaker put in as replacement. Try phoning Discount Trucks, Newbury or Bellhill Motors to see if they could help and what cost would be.
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by g8dhe » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:15 pm

All the above assumes that the problem really is as reported by the garage ! As suggested by others has anyone inspected the vehicle closely to be sure that the problem really is the worst case situation and not just a faulty oil pressure switch !
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:20 pm

g8dhe wrote:All the above assumes that the problem really is as reported by the garage ! As suggested by others has anyone inspected the vehicle closely to be sure that the problem really is the worst case situation and not just a faulty oil pressure switch !
Absolutely - never assume =D>
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by flossie » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:01 pm

What grade were you told the vehicle is ? Do u have any/ much documentation from Japan ? Does the vehicle seem like a 27 k mileage ( or more?) disproportionately worn accelerator spongy seat and or steering wheel ?

I have to say this grading scheme in my opinion is a misleading scheme operated in Japan ( or rather we are uneducated in it) mine was a grade 4 and indeed is immaculate to look at however under the bonnet was a different leaky filthy story . I trusted Algys s reps to select a good quality vehicle as I employed them to act on my behalf ( I felt ) . The grading system is only on visual appearance of bodywork and interior; it does not include standard of mechanical quality. Indeed it wasxadmitted that mine was so bad they would have had to tow it rather than drive it onto the ship in Japan! Indeed I could have selected a vehicle entirely on my own based on the grading system and arranged independent importation !
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by lpgimports » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:09 pm

Has it been tested to see if it actually has oil pressure and not a faulty sender.

You can have the engine taken out stripped rebuilt and put back for far far less than suggested, please get a second even independent motor engineer look at it.

Buying a car is a risk, you limit this by buying from a known source with a good reputation that knows the product and is willing to resolve issues when they arise and is willing to support you in the future. To save money you can go back as far down the supply chain as you want ultimately walking up to a nice Japanese driver and buying his car from him in the street in Japan, each step back along has more and more risk, yes it will be cheaper and cheaper but more risk and with less come back.

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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:13 pm

lpgimports wrote:Has it been tested to see if it actually has oil pressure and not a faulty sender.

You can have the engine taken out stripped rebuilt and put back for far far less than suggested, please get a second even independent motor engineer look at it.

Buying a car is a risk, you limit this by buying from a known source with a good reputation that knows the product and is willing to resolve issues when they arise and is willing to support you in the future. To save money you can go back as far down the supply chain as you want ultimately walking up to a nice Japanese driver and buying his car from him in the street in Japan, each step back along has more and more risk, yes it will be cheaper and cheaper but more risk and with less come back.

Paul
All good points Paul. I do think though that a key aspect of how an importing agent can add value to the work they do (and thus justify using them) is to have experienced and astute scouts at auction. I had believed that one of the things you did get a chance to do at car auction previews was to start the engine and check gauges - am I wrong in thinking that?

Also, one of the ironies that many have discovered is that importing yourself very often does not work out cheaper than buying in UK - strange but true, so someone must be taking a decent rake-off?
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by lpgimports » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:57 pm

If you have ever been to a UK car auction typically selling anywhere between 50 and 150 cars starting up running for 30 seconds and then driving off to the ring to be bid upon there is not much time to do an appraisal, at most a quick scan of the window sheet to see number of owners not a write off, service history any MOT and TAX then a quick is it straight the same colour any damage any burns rips tears does it sound ok, pop bonnet if you get a chance, any smoke from filler cap has it water better antifreeze at this point your being hustled out of way so they can sell it, you way up your options and bid and buy if there is a profit to be had, all this in about 3 minutes. You either drive it home and 20 miles from the auction feel good that its running ok nothing has broke the heater works as you didnt check no lights especially air bag abs oil pressure and the temp hasnt hit the roof. These 150 odd cars are a 4 or 5 hour deal.

Now in Japan.....

The big auction say USS Tokyo starts first thing in the morning and goes on till midnight or until they run out of cars, thousands of cars are sold, they are all pre inspected and pre photographed and come up on screens in the auction hall and registered bidders sit at desks and bid on the car with buttons, a car can be auctioned off in seconds. Yes they are all on a lot outside but pre auction inspection is limited, imagine a lot like your average airport long stay...

Profit...not any more, pre autumn 2008 sourcing and selling good imports was relatively easy if you had the connections and built a good reputation. These days its very very hard to source good vehicles and import them and sell them at profit unless you add value by way of camper conversion etc.

Sure these import agents whomever they may be can occasionally source nice cars at keen prices, (well appear) but when you add on the things that need doing cambelts tyres conversion work registration etc etc your not far short of the price a car can be had from a dealer for less risk, the dealers risk is spread over all the cars he sells in the year, so one low oil pressure car needing work for another 100 that are spot on dissolves the risk.
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by New Forest Terrier » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:46 pm

Glad to see that discussion of this topic has been allowed. Not to glad to see yet another similar situation happen. When the original censorship thread ran, it looked as though repeated problems would have to be ignored and the same trap would be fallen into time and time again. A quote came to mind "All that it needs for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing".

I agree with Paul that buying further up the import chain increases the risks. Someone, somewhere must have bought their Bongo in Japan from a private seller for peanuts and shipped it back. Practically though a scheme that offers to save by cutting out a layer of transaction and of course profit does not sound like unmitigated greed.

I bought my Bongo direct from the importer in the condition it had arrived in UK. I paid just over half its price on a local forecourt. The saving was accounted for in that the dealer purchasing it from the importer would have to put it into forecourt condition, pay his selling costs and make a profit. I also expected that the importer selling to repeat customers would buy stock free from major defects, plus if the was a serious fault I could rely on UK law. For anything else I had to have confidence in my own judgment

I got a cracking Bongo in brilliant condition, did the work on it I choose and bypassed the extra costs. A total win.

With Algys there are several issues. First they seem to have poor judgment or buying practices. Their customers are trusting them to buy unseen and they appear to have ignored faults that should been obvious at auction. Unless Japanese auctions differ from UK ones, a vehicle would be driven into the auction area and anything needed to be towed would be given a wide berth.

Secondly they do not make it clear that they are non UK based and operate via the Internet. The garage in Bristol acts only as an agent and charges for all work.

Buying a Bongo straight from an auction I would expect the final polish being needed. Not a situation where vehicles are supplied that are a disaster for their owner.

Algys are doing this for a profit as a commercial organisation, so should be judged on their performance. Twice this week I have been asked to submit a review of my purchase to the supplying organisation so that they can monitor their performance and the quality of the goods. These were not expensive items, so why should be expensive purchases like vehicles be removed from scrutiny.
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by dandywarhol » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:06 am

ramusfamily wrote:Engine is petrol 2000CC. It is an '02 model, only 27 miles on the clock and apparently the low mileage has resulted in the oil becoming gunky and clogging various parts of the engine and resulting in abrasions in various other parts. We need to have the alternator, power steering pump, transmission, AC unit, timing belt assembly, big end shells, crankshaft and main bearing shells oil pump removed (and presumably replaced or cleaned). My mechanical knowledge is pretty minimal, I'm afraid, but these are the main items listed on the estimate of works.
Can't for the life of me see why a 27,000 mile vehicle needs an alternator, power steering pump, transmission and AC unit replaced unless it's been underwater or similar.................. :? might also explain why the oil is contaminated enough to wreck the engine. :shock:
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by lpgimports » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:33 am

I think the quote is removing replacing all those components as they need to come off to remove the engine and rebuilt it.

BUT please please please find out if it has any oil pressure and not a faulty sender.

Also had a number of 2.0 Bongo's that sound a bit rattly and upon checking were bearings in idler pulley at fault

I many years ago had a engine pulled out of a car stripped rebuilt at great expense and when started sounded exactly the same, and was found to be the vacuum pump which was driven by the cam on the rocker cover £100 part......not happy at that point...
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by T9sus4 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:26 am

lpgimports wrote:(...) the dealers risk is spread over all the cars he sells in the year, so one low oil pressure car needing work for another 100 that are spot on dissolves the risk.
The dealer's risk. Exactly. The case discussed appears to have the risk placed entirely on the customer. This, in my opinion, is wrong.
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by dandywarhol » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:43 am

lpgimports wrote:I think the quote is removing replacing all those components as they need to come off to remove the engine and rebuilt it.

BUT please please please find out if it has any oil pressure and not a faulty sender.

Also had a number of 2.0 Bongo's that sound a bit rattly and upon checking were bearings in idler pulley at fault

I many years ago had a engine pulled out of a car stripped rebuilt at great expense and when started sounded exactly the same, and was found to be the vacuum pump which was driven by the cam on the rocker cover £100 part......not happy at that point...
Fair n'uf - I misread that bit.................
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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by Yamaha » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:41 am

I notice the OP said the vehicle was already en route to Soton when he bought it - so that means in effect it was a personal import, thus attracting a lower Import Duty rate, I believe?

I'm sure I've seen somewhere on here that is why you save money by buying once the vehicle is "en route".

The question is, I guess - does this fact help or hinder any claim for recompense - I would assume that, in this senario, Algys have changed from being the Importer to just the sourcing and transport agent?

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Re: Import Scheme Nightmare

Post by flossie » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:48 am

No they sorcecthe vehicle and use a third party to ship but ultimately u are paying them for axservice which is to source a good quality vehicle for u which is what they state and they have therefore broken their contract with u by supplying seriously inferior goods. As I've said before my solicitor said that under UK law I had an exceptionally strong case but as they are in Cyprus suing them gets very complicated and expensive .
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