No Power or Acceleration on Hills - New Cylinder Head and Timing Belt

[surfkernow]

1996 2.5 TD 4x4 . History of over heating (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76767). New Cylinder Head and Timing Belt a few days ago. My van now has no power when faced with any hill or incline. The turbo never kicks in, and you are lucky to get to 25mph with traffic building behind you. On the flat the Van will get to 60. Previously my van ate hills for breakfast. I have searched through the forum and the following appear to be areas to investigate :

1) Fuel pump - Dirt in the filter under the banjo bolt.

2) Fuel Filter (only replaced a few months ago)

3) Wastegate stuck open

4)Air intake pipe come off the air intake manifold

5) Timing Belt not set correctly

6) Valve Clearances Not set correctly

7) Vacuum pipes disconnected from the turbo

Are there any other areas I should consider? The Van is still with the garage that changed the cylinder head and timing belt. They took it for a test drive but on a flat piece of road so the symptoms were not apparent to them. "Fine when we drove it mate" !!!! It has only been driven about 2 miles home and back to the garage.

With consideration that my van had power but was over heating before i gave it to the garage and it now has no power after they replaced the cylinder head and timing belt...my guess is that this would more likely be 5,6 or 7.

Do let me know if I have missed anything blatant. Any advice or pointers gratefully received.

[Bongolia]

Take it back to the garage get one of the mechanics in it and take him for a test drive.
If it drove OK before they fixed the head then it should drive OK after.

[surfkernow]

I have taken two videos of the noise the Van makes when driving. It sounds ******. In part 2 of the video , you can see smoke emanating from around the turbo. I am guessing it is from leaking oil that is being burnt off around the turbo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVa8q9Y6QLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iB1dO1edl0

I am just driving for about 2/3 minutes on a road outside the garage. The van did not sound like this before the cylinder head and timing belt were changed. I don't have the experience to tell from the engine noise what I (the garage) should be looking at.

BUT, i reckon there will be an old boy/girl on this forum that will watch/listen to the video and go : yip, it is this ....that is my hope


Plonkatronix : It could be the fuel pump. Just checked and cleaned the banjo filter, and removed the sediment connection from the fuel filter. The filter was changed a few months back.

I checked for loose hoses and could not find any.

[surfkernow]

I am pretty sure the fuel pump has not been moved unless you need to move it to change the cylinder head or cam belt?

[Northern Bongolow]

If the pumps been moved on the pump adjuster sliders to try to compensate for the timing belt being fitted one tooth out it can run fairly well, but not pull under load, this will stop the turbo kicking in at the correct time if at all.
Check the pump adjusters bolts for signs of recent movement.

[JulesMartin]

Difficult to see if the vacuum arm is moving back and forth from the video. looks to me like it is not moving so check that the vacuum pipe is really tight and secure both ends. They will have to have removed the vacuum hoses on the inlet side of the engine so be a good place to start to make sure that a) vac hoses are on tight b) are in the right places. Does sound quite rattly but that may be down to the heat shield.

[surfkernow]

Thank you Northern Bongolow , plonkatronix and JulesMartin for the replies. I do appreciate the help.

I agree, a vacuum or pump issue could be the culprit. The Van is still at the garage, it only went down the road and back after the cylinder head and timing belt were replaced.

I took the garage owner out for a test drive in my Van this morning ; we went down the road and back up a steep hill to demonstrate the lack of power/torque/turbo. I have also given him a print out of the condensed replies from this thread and others so they have more of a chance rectifying whatever they did.

I have also given them a vacuum hose diagram from lushprojects.

I will hopefully update this thread by the end of the week with a resolution so this thread might be useful to others in the future

[surfkernow]

Back from the garage and their diagnosis is a faulty turbo. They showed me my Turbo on my Bongo and told me to reach inside and try to spin the impeller blades. I couldn't, they are were jammed stuck, apparently they got them to turn with pliers. They showed me another Turbo off another Van , not a Bongo, and said they should spin freely. The smoke and oil in the video was from a gasket which they have no replaced.

My instinct is to trust their diagnosis, but before I purchase a 2nd hand Turbo...what do you people here think?

Is there any difference between the 2wd and 4x4 Turbo? Or else I will just find a Turbo for a 96 2.5 TD

Thank you for your help

[Bob]

I can't think the turbo would be different, and it does sound as though you're nearly there.

[JulesMartin]

Turbo should turn easily with just finger pressure so sounds like it's partially seized. that said when you took it into the garage it was for a head gasket and timing belt. Now it's out of the garage with a broken turbo??
If it's seized its seized and there is nothing much to be done other than replace it but it's got tight for a reason so make sure they check the oil feed and return and the coolant supply and return are all working perfectly before they put another turbo on.

[rita]

There is a strong possibility that some foreign matter has got into turbo,it would be advisable to remove and examine the turbo,it does not take much to stop them from spinning. It's got to come off one way or another.
IF the mechanic has tried to force it with pliers its probably goosed.

[surfkernow]

Thank you for the replies. I agree, the Turbo needs to be replaced.

JulesMartin. it is a coincidence that it is now broken. It did work before, but they are not making any money , as they are one of the few garages left that will fit a second hand part I buy. He said it would take under an hour to fit. It is just a bit frustrating the Van is at a garage, stranded. I could fit a Turbo, as I could of the radiator, water pump, cam belt etc...i just lack the diagnostic skills to identify a problem in the first place I am a fitter not a mechanic !

I guess the Van will need bleeding again, after the Turbo had been replaced, as it will means detaching and reattaching coolant hoses to the Turbo??

I will buy this tomorrow night, so please shout if you think it is an incorrect part. I have a 1996, 2.5TD 4X4. Are any additional gaskets needed?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-Bongo- ... 2495925916

Rita, I will fully examine the turbo when I get it off the Van and see what caused it to fail.
plonkatronix, I might rebuild the faulty turbo. I quite enjoy doing that sort of thing.

I will update the thread in probably a week's time, with hopefully some positive news

[JulesMartin]

From the picture that looks to be a complete unit including exhaust manifold. it is an easier job although much heavier to remove it from the engine as is with manifold complete rather than separate it all up but just check if you are going to put it back that way that the manifold is nor warped. very common on the Bongo and my very first introduction into its wonder ways. If you are going to use the manifold just put a straight edge across it with a bright light behind to see if you can see any high lows usually right at the ends. Always use new gaskets and assembly paste.

[surfkernow]

Thank you for the replies. I have now purchased the Turbo listed above. I will probably detach it from the manifold so I don't have to get any more gaskets. I will update once it has been fitted and all is working.

Can I ask. Will I need to re bleed the van once the Turbo has been fitted?

[JulesMartin]

And there is an O ring gasket between the short Turbo Manifold to exhaust pipe and another square gasket that will need replacing even if you don't remove the main manifold. they are of metal construction and if in good order can probably be reused but at very least I'd suggest some assembly compound. Gas tight exhausts are important on turbo's plus of course your passenger is sitting directly above the turbo. you don't want exhaust gases coming into the cab.