Coolant leak right side (from front)

Technical questions and answers about the Mazda Bongo

Moderators: Doone, westonwarrior

User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:47 am

MB are doing their best for us, but 2 original rubber parts that hold 2 large bore water pipes are
very hard to locate at the moment. 2-3 weeks wait from Japan, trying their best to find some in the U.K.

That's £300.00 + of event tickets + cattery down the drain early July. Not their fault but some summer this is turning out to be.
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by mikeonb4c » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:19 pm

BongoBongo123 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:47 am MB are doing their best for us, but 2 original rubber parts that hold 2 large bore water pipes are
very hard to locate at the moment. 2-3 weeks wait from Japan, trying their best to find some in the U.K.

That's £300.00 + of event tickets + cattery down the drain early July. Not their fault but some summer this is turning out to be.
Hey ho, look on the bright side. It looks like the UK weather has sprung a massive coolant leak. Currently having rain, fog and wind in Whitby in the Bongo :lol: :cry:
User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:30 pm

Yes down south its grey as well. MB doing their best to try and locate these rubber parts for the large bore metal pipes, I presume they stop vibration or hold them in place.
User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:39 pm

Going badly. Suspected cracked cylinder head, won't bleed after changing almost every hose, new genuine stat and genuine rad and 2 large bore water pipes. They have not capped the rear heater pipes off "as they looked ok". I wanted them capped tbh given they are 24 y.o. When do you push it, and when do you accept the expert advice ? I asked if the could be the cause of the bleed issue but they say it is gas getting into the system (not a leak as pressure test was ok other than cause of overheat = rad) so most likely head.

They are saying they cannot rule out something untoward lower in the engine either but that was rare.

It is a bitter pill to swallow, a bit more than gutted, I have nothing else to add at this time .
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by mikeonb4c » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:17 pm

Jeebers bb123 really sorry to hear that. Had to have a new head myself a few years ago but mine's been fine since. I wonder if some underlying problem went unaddressed. No matter, its still not the news you wanted to hear. :-(
User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:49 pm

Block is porous. Basically needs an entire new engine. (as far as I gather
that is only the second known block on a Bongo to have gone wrong on this forum.)

MazdaBongo is doing their best. It is not their fault but our summer is destroyed.

Hard to believe but their must have been a pre existing issue with the block. Prior to this no real indications (we did a 350 mile round trip to west country the week before and ran smooth as you like).. a little smudge of soot around a manifold stud on the head is the only thing I have seen unusual of late (1 month ago) and I cleaned it off kept and eye on it and nothing came back after 300miles of driving so ?

Well I guess you cannot know how a vehicle has been driven before you got it or if the block had a manufacturing defect of some kind, or multiple previous overheats take their toll. The biggest slap in the face is I look after it, look, listen, patch up, protect, consider preventative maintenance in advance and maintain.

I just don't know where we are with Bongo ownership tbh the wind has truly been taken from out sails. We are not exactly rich people we may have over stretched our means a bit with a Bongo. I only had Austin Maestro's and a car my dad gave us (22 y.o one) before so it was a relatively big spend (which as I wrote about on here we got rid of 6 months ago... doh !). When things settle we will work out where we are and what the near future holds.

Anyway enough of the sob story. Stuff happens I guess, twice in fact, like Die Hard.

Come the end of this we will have replaced the entire cooling system pipes bar 2 that will be capped off and with Mazda original parts where available + the head and the block. So it will be in good shape, but whether we will be keeping it or not long term is something we need to discuss hard and work out around finances. I probably won't be on here much cause I don't have anything to offer the forum anymore, I was never that techy but enthusiastic for days, now not so much. :(
User avatar
haydn callow
Supreme Being
Posts: 5772
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by haydn callow » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:39 pm

How do you determine that a block is porous ? Surely if that’s the case it has always been porous...doesn’t make sense to me....has the head been removed and examined ??
http://www.coolantalarm.co.uk
Developer of the Mazda Bongo Coolant loss Alarm
Also BMW Clocks
User avatar
g8dhe
Supreme Being
Posts: 10179
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
Contact:

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by g8dhe » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:47 pm

Got to agree! That sounds like a get out explanation for not knowing what the cause is! Metal doesn't suddenly become porous overnight, its a problem caused when the wrong mixture of metals is used in creating an alloy in the first place!
Geoff
2001 Aero V6, AFT, full side conversion.
Image Spherical Visions
teenmal
Supreme Being
Posts: 3656
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:08 pm
Location: north lanarkshire

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by teenmal » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:00 am

haydn callow wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:39 pm How do you determine that a block is porous ? Surely if that’s the case it has always been porous...doesn’t make sense to me....has the head been removed and examined ??

Often this is apparent after a good clean and inspection of the block surface (decking) ,you will see very very smal black marks .The owner of this vehicle should have had an explanation from the garage/mechanic and even shown the problem.Just to tell the owner the block is Porus is not good practise .



Take care
User avatar
haydn callow
Supreme Being
Posts: 5772
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by haydn callow » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:12 am

teenmal wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:00 am
haydn callow wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:39 pm How do you determine that a block is porous ? Surely if that’s the case it has always been porous...doesn’t make sense to me....has the head been removed and examined ??

Often this is apparent after a good clean and inspection of the block surface (decking) ,you will see very very smal black marks .The owner of this vehicle should have had an explanation from the garage/mechanic and even shown the problem.Just to tell the owner the block is Porus is not good practise .



Take care
Yes I get all that, I used to cast gold,silver,cobalt chrome and sometimes when polishing a bit of porosity would appear. But to get so much in a engine casting that combustion gasses pass through the porous bit is difficult to understand. I doubt the engine in question has been stripped and tested properly. Is the engine at one of the Bongo specialist garages ? If not, I would get a 2nd opinion
http://www.coolantalarm.co.uk
Developer of the Mazda Bongo Coolant loss Alarm
Also BMW Clocks
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by mikeonb4c » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:50 pm

Very sorry to hear this news bb123 though like the others the porous block thing sounds strange to me. You may be better cutting your losses regardless as although you may fix the mechanical stuff its still an old car that will probably produce welding bills before long. These things are fine if you and your wallet are up for them but i'm finding increasingly in retirement that I like an uncomplicted life! If it were not for the fact that my Bongo offers things no other car can, and that i can use, I'd probably sell it and get an ordinary car (though i'd miss it like hell!) One thing me and ny partner did buy last year was an Eriba Puck caravan. Not cheap, but holds value and is v light and compact to tow on almost any road behind an ordinary car. And it would allow you to enjoy comfortable camping, if that is what you're wanting to do.
User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:31 pm

I am not a mechanic and I guess most people are not either so whilst I can change oil regularly and maintain basics (though fat lot of good that did us) I have to have some trust in the end. Here is a pack of 9 photos with pictures of cylinder bores. They look pitted/scratched in some of the pictures. The more experienced can tell me if that could amount to porosity cause I have no idea ?

As far as head examination I think you mean a pressure test ? No it has not been pressure tested as that came up in conversation about putting the old head back on (and maybe saving some money). I was told it would need to be skimmed first and pressure tested and if a problem still existed then it would be a quite a bit of labour wasted that I would be paying for.

It is with Dormans Garage Ltd. they are owned by www.mazdabongo.com I did see if they were on the list but they did not seem to be as far as I recall. But they seem very well connected in Bongo stuff. I am told by Andy they know Ian from this forum and Allans, and speak fairly frequently so I cannot imagine given they have a huge Bongo parts website and own a garage that they are legit.

9 photos

https://imgur.com/a/62Twldg

What I cannot get my head around ultimately is:

1) I am changing oil regularly doing about 5K max miles P.A. i.e. low mileage.
2) Driving not above 60mph on M-Ways to save fuel.
3) Driving with great sympathy to the vehicles age, especially on cold starts I keep revs below 2,000 if I can for 3-4 mins
4) The fact diesel engines are supposed to be mega durable.
5) No smoking or steaming from the exhaust at all (if fact the opposite, super clean smoke free Bongo, even on revs
as my mate has revved it whilst I look at the tail pipe.)
6) Engine always felt strong - plenty of go if I need/smooth running good and as you well know very high MPG's returned - that seems surely to be the sign of a happy engine. In fact it was running smooth right up until the alarm went off (actually it still was when the alarm went off. Then I switched off and never started it again).

You know all this cause like the pub bore (pardon the unintentional pun) this is basically all I go on about on here !

And then my block seems to have decayed in a way that is rare an hen's teeth, with zero prior symptoms (even during alarm going off @92C and a dump of 1-2 litres of coolant at bottom of rad) as return payment for that sympathetic driving. #-o
Flanners
Bongolier
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:11 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by Flanners » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:38 pm

The bore damage to me looks like damage due to heat issues either too hot (overheating) or maybe even too 'cold' (frequent short trips).

I am not sure what they are quoting for a 'new' engine and labour to fit or how far you are in ££'s wise, but for me it would be time to cut my losses and be looking for another van as Mike mentions above. If you do keep it then the cutting corners to save cash putting parts back etc to me will be a false economy.
2002 2.0 Aero with Outback Conversion and Roof Top Tent
User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:51 pm

Well I am told most likely porous block, they probably have NOT tested it, they never said they did so assume they did not. I cannot really argue as I am unable to test it. Thanks for your thoughts Flanners and all who has replied recently. When the chips are down moral support does help. :) And we have agreed to a new head being fitted, it was just my thought that if it is not the head then maybe some £ can be saved as it is only 3 years old. But we agree, new head it is.

With regards finances, it is tricky. At this moment we would lose a lot of investment as the van will be worth a few quid scrap.
It is our only vehicle and if we want a decent van it will be circa £5K and it won't be a Bongo, not that it need specifically be.
or a car so £5K for something worth having. The risk possibly being a second hand van with fairly high miles and unknown consumables required, tyres/brakes/services a few bits and bobs.

So financially it kind of hangs in the balance and we don't know what we are doing yet but if we sell it, it will get a decent price cause it will have an entire new cooling system and that will be advertised as such.

One thing I now know through direct experience is any Bongo that has not had its entire cooling system replaced and I would suggest with an Original Mazda radiator is a ticking time bomb, it will break, it is just a matter of time, so have your £grands set aside for that day. An entirely replaced cooling system is worth a lot in a 24 year old vehicle, either to us or whoever buys it.

You always have to have in mind that a VW would cost an unbelievable amount of money more. When Bongo's run well they are great. The downside is going to a specialist garage is mega hassle and you feel somewhat bent over a barrel, as unless you are a mechanic yourself you must trust what is being said. If I had diagnostic knowledge I could respond in kind and approach the communications in a manner that would keep on top of what the garage tells me. (I have of course tried as far as my basic knowledge goes on the Bongo)

We are very gutted and confused at the moment on all fronts.

As a final thought given the full process so far. Hindsight is 20/20 and I cannot help but think they could have just tried bleeding it again and thoroughly to be 100pct sure there was no air lock before saying inconclusively (without full testing) it was first the head and then it must be the block. But in the stress, worry and confusion that has now lasted 4 weeks and lack of deep engine knowledge I had to go take what I have been told at face value.

I always try and think logically about problems and their causes to the best of my ability but logic seems to fail at the moment.
User avatar
BongoBongo123
Supreme Being
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Coolant leak right side (from front)

Post by BongoBongo123 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:03 pm

We are resigned to getting this addressed and I have to give trust MazdaBongo/Dormans. We have new tyres, new brakes and disks all round, rear springs changed. I put have a put a load of effort into the body work which is completely sound. It is rust free other than a few bits I sort every year. The van is good other than well.. the bleeding obvious. Anyone who gets crazy bills for a vehicle will naturally have suspicions aroused. Something similar would be £7,000 worth in Bongo arena (and few have had the entire cooling system replaced), we have a professional conversion and AFT. It is not a standard tin top. All this factors in as well as getting some other vehicle and not knowing its history either and having to service do tyres/brakes, cam belt, aircon charge etc. etc. And old transit for £5k would be a bit of a compromise and we all know how old white vans get driven.

MazdaBongo to their credit have put up with me being very stressed out, the main thing is they can sort it and they have been phoning around a lot trying to source parts and attempting to sort a block. Either way it does look like the block has some damage and the block is a relatively inexpensive job compared to the head and the entire cooling system replacement. Let's face it they have 1/2 the engine apart already. As I gather the engine block has to be replaced by another garage in another county. Sadly it is going to take a long time to source a good block and replace it.

What is vital is a good block goes.

The extra annoyance and expense is lots of missed events which has soured the entire summer season.
Post Reply

Return to “Techie Stuff”