Intermittent starting issues

[costas]

Hoping some of you can help with my current starting issue that I thought I had previously sorted. It’s a 2002 2.5td.

Starting from cold, she’s right on the money but after a drive our beloved Bongo really has to work to get going. The issue seems to only occur after a drive (service station stop sort of thing), the starter will tick over at a great rate however the engine doesn’t fire up. After about 10 seconds I get nervous and start pumping the accelerator which eventually seems to, begrudgingly get the engine goings, occasionally accompanied with a bit of smoke from the exhaust.
As this has always happened away from home I’ve not been brave enough to try it without touching the accelerator to see it it needs that or not, don’t fancy being stuck with a flat battery.

From hunting forums I’ve tried the following:
Loosening the petrol cap (ran around with it practically out!)
Giving the glow plugs more than enough time to heat
Switching the ac off. Thought this solved it but it alas, just coincidence.
Changed the ac relay with one from another van
I’ve recently done an oil and filters change but not the glow plugs

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

[Northern Bongolow]

glow plugs wont be in the game if the bongo is hot as they are not used when hot.

i would look into the fuel system.
check you have a good quality fuel filter fitted,(did it do it before this filter was fitted) there are some really poor ones around. is it fitted correctly, have you or the fitter damaged the filter housing.

check the pipes from the tank top if possible through the hatch in the floor behind the drivers seat, these are short lengths of rubber to metal pipes and can suffer corrosion on top of the tank. these are about due in age to be replaced anyway.

on the end of the fuel pickup pipe in the tank is a filter, this filter can be blocked with a stray leaf or 2 floating around in the tank. remove the pipe from the tank at the filter housing and gently blow back to the tank to clear and crap that is gathered around or on it.

is the filter in the top of the fuel pump clean, it may look clean but you have to remove it to check that its not like a hairdressers plug hole, i removed mine and it had 25mm of dangling crap hanging from the underside of the filter going into the pump.

one of the pipes from the top of the fuel tank is short and goes to a bobbin shaped filter that is clipped on to the inside of the drivers side chassis rail, its designed to let the tank breathe as the fuel is put in, but just inside the pipe is a pencil thin one way valve. unclip(just pull it) off the chassis pull the filter off the pipe then feel for the one way valve, remove it and blow it out, one way, its very like the one way valve on your windscreen washer system. refit then the tank will breathe better as the fuel is used up during a long run.

is the underside of the fuel pump wet with diesel, if yes it could be the side seals or the large O ring around the block where the injector pipes come out, or it could be leaking from the nose seal at the front of the pump, this leak is harder to see as it leaks into the timing belt cover. usually when the pump is leaking its hard to start cold or warm, so this is a longer shot.

try one of the easily available fuel system cleaners that are easy to use, just tip it in the tank, these clean the tank out, pump internals, pipework, and injectors, valves and seats and egr and turbo. these are really ness now that fuel is generally poor imported crap with bio in it.

im sorry i tried to show you the parts on lushprojects but it appears to be unavailable.

[mikeonb4c]

Starting from cold, she’s right on the money

Can we assume that means it starts with just the touch of the starter, with no smoke and no lumpiness. If so, does it still start as good as that after - say - a 5 minute drive. And what about a 10 min drive. Or 15 min drive. The point i'm driving at (pun, groan!) is whether the results could give further clues. In particular, whether the problem is linked to a fuel starvation problem (which might come on quicker) or an engine heat soak problem (which might point more to an issue with the fuel pump or something associated with it). Also, when it smokes a bit on starting, what kind/colour smoke is it, and is it accompanied by lumpy running. I would want to do as much diagnostic/detective work as possible before labour intensive (and possibly fruitless) work pulling things apart. And if you're lucky enough to have an experienced Bongo specialist near you, it might be a good investment to have them take a look. Good luck & keep us posted.

[costas]

Thanks for your responses.

Yes, cold start is fine, no smoke or lumpiness. No complaints whatsoever with this.

The start up smoke looks to be white or grey but difficult to see properly as there isn’t much of it, when it does get going it seems to be turning very slowly before getting to a normal idle and 3-5 seconds but I imagine this isn’t the case as the start motor sounds perfect. Hard to explain, maybe I’ll try to grab a video of it.

There is a Garage who works on Bongo nearby, but being the only one on the area they are generally very back up with them and I’d like to avoid the expense of taking it there if possible.

As for the timing of the issue, I’m not entirely sure, I’ll try to find time to do some running around to determine when it happens, tight nor I’d say somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes. As for the time it has to sit there when stopped, anything over 10 minutes seems to do it. More experimenting to do to try and get this a bit more accurate.

Interesting comment regarding the filter, I did go to a local auto shop to get this while previously I’ve always used an online bongo specialist for my previous van. I don’t remember it happening before but I did the mini service almost as soon as I acquired this van. Previous owner claims it didn’t happen to him and I do believe him.

I will check the filter but didn’t have any problems fitting and something I’m familiar with but that’s a great list to get me going. I’ll get back to investigating this week.

Thanks again, I’ll keep you posted.

[mikeonb4c]

Hope you get it sorted. I'm guessing yours has the later fly-by-wire fuel system unlike my 95 model. I wonder if it might be playing up.

[costas]

So it turns out the problem after driving it might be a red herring.........

I took her for a decent drive last night, one I was sure would prompt the issue as a starting point. 50 minute drive (something quite relaxing about driving a bongo, got carried away!), 15 minutes to settle - it started but was cranking for longer than a 'good start' a further 15 minutes rest, same again.

Thought I'd give it a go this morning before going to work - cold engine and the issue was there! Lots of turning over before firing but as I was on the drive I left the accelerator alone and it still, eventually, fired into life, no smoke.

Can't see/feel any leaks around the filter or pump, before or after the drive. The filter looks to be fitted ok, short of removing it and refitting, from what I can tell it's ok. The flooring prevented me looking for the hatch behind the driver seat.

on the end of the fuel pickup pipe in the tank is a filter, this filter can be blocked with a stray leaf or 2 floating around in the tank. remove the pipe from the tank at the filter housing and gently blow back to the tank to clear and crap that is gathered around or on it.

How do I access this?

is the filter in the top of the fuel pump clean

Any advice on how what to remove here please?

one of the pipes from the top of the fuel tank is short and goes to a bobbin shaped filter that is clipped on to the inside of the drivers side chassis rail

I missed this last night, will take a look tonight.

Unfortunately, due to time, lack of access and knowledge I fear I'm booking it into the garage.

[mikeonb4c]

Interesting. Good luck and keep us posted

[g8dhe]

You can get to the top of the fuel tank and access to the pump etc. via this plate in the picture below, its behind the drivers seat offside of centre line;