bloomin roof

Technical questions and answers about the Mazda Bongo

Moderators: Doone, westonwarrior

novocaine
Bongonaut
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:56 am
Location: Warrington

bloomin roof

Post by novocaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:54 am

slight issue with the AFT at the moment
it goes up but wont come back down. well that's not quite all there is but that's pretty close to it.
basically it goes up perfectly, no issues, a bit of groaning from the struts but nothing major. it reaches full height (as in it stops beeping) and stops. great.

now when I try to put it down it does nothing, engine is running, handbrake is on (as is the light) and it's out of gear, hit the lock cancel button and it does nothing, no beeping at all, so obviously the down button won't do anything either.
out come the Allen keys and I wind it down by hand most of the way (instead of discounting the motors and pulling it down with a rope as the manual says). once it gets almost all the way down the down button starts working and I can lower it the rest of the way. it goes down and locks down and the beeping stops but the roof light on the dash continues to flash.

any ideas? anyone local fancy lending me there roof control box to test? I'm inclined to think it's a damaged loom where it runs across the back to the passanger side at the moment.

quick note on what I have checked.
handbrake switch
lock switch (checked for continuity but not for power from the control module)
control switch (checked for continuity but not for power from the control module)
motors (removed, cleaned and linked to 12v in both directions)
contacts on control unit (for corrosion, they look clean)
fuses (30amp is fine, 10 amp for doors and 15 amp for cabin in case it is relevant for switches)
I have sprayed the microswitches in the roof track but haven't checked them for continuity yet, however when I push the upper switch on both sides the roof beeping stops.

see why I'm getting close to out of ideas?
User avatar
daveblueozzie
Supreme Being
Posts: 5922
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: North West.

Re: bloomin roof

Post by daveblueozzie » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:10 am

It would help if you told where about in the country you are.
Lost without my Bongo.
novocaine
Bongonaut
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:56 am
Location: Warrington

Re: bloomin roof

Post by novocaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:27 am

sorry, yes it would wouldn't it.

warrington.
north west, will go change my profile now. :oops:
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: bloomin roof

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:32 am

I'd take it to Adrian at Japandirect in Bury. He's fixed my AFT when it gave trouble and done likewise for many others. Suggest calling him first to discuss. Good luck, keep us posted.
User avatar
g8dhe
Supreme Being
Posts: 10179
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
Contact:

Re: bloomin roof

Post by g8dhe » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:36 am

The only thing electrically that happens as you lower the roof is the operation of the micro-switches and the initial lock-cancel at the max. height, then the pause at about halfway down. Have you tried raising the roof to nearly full height, but stopping before the limit switches operate and then lowering and seeing if the "pause" position operates correctly ?
If that works correctly it would suggest that its not the micro-switches at fault, but either the lock-cancel switch or the control module. The lock-cancel switch (M2-07) you really need to check from the control module end see the diagram here;

To make sure its not the wiring as opposed to the switch itself.
My bet would be on the something faulty between the control module and the lock-cancel switch, followed by the module itself.
Geoff
2001 Aero V6, AFT, full side conversion.
Image Spherical Visions
novocaine
Bongonaut
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:56 am
Location: Warrington

Re: bloomin roof

Post by novocaine » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:04 pm

think you might be right Geoff, when it's not howling a gale again I intend to put the roof up and check continuity between the lock switch and the module. there a number of connections at the rear of the roof which may also be at fault as they are exposed when the roof is up.

if the motors and struts are out of sync would that cause any issues? (one of the motors isn't in the mounting correctly, so need to get that sorted too)

Mike
If all else fails I think it will head to stoke to be sorted, van hasn't been in our hands long enough for basic stuff like this to be going wrong. will keep japspares in mind though, I know he has a few in for breaking so maybe able to swap some bits to see whats happening.
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: bloomin roof

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:15 pm

[quote="novocaine"]think you might be right Geoff, when it's not howling a gale again I intend to put the roof up and check continuity between the lock switch and the module. there a number of connections at the rear of the roof which may also be at fault as they are exposed when the roof is up.

if the motors and struts are out of sync would that cause any issues? (one of the motors isn't in the mounting correctly, so need to get that sorted too)

Mike
If all else fails I think it will head to stoke to be sorted, van hasn't been in our hands long enough for basic stuff like this to be going wrong. will keep japspares in mind though, I know he has a few in for breaking so maybe able to swap some bits to see whats happening.[/quote]

Ah yes, return to dealer first, and Ian Taylor knows his stuff. Adrian is not a breaker but a Bongo specialist mechanic - my local Ian Taylor! Geoffs suggestions are good. My roof switch is a bit iffy at present, one of my microswitchs likewise. I have some electric motor cleaning spray I can squirt at them, which seems to restore normal service. I remind myself these are 20 year old components that only get operated occasionally - immortality cannot be expected!
User avatar
g8dhe
Supreme Being
Posts: 10179
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
Contact:

Re: bloomin roof

Post by g8dhe » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:40 pm

If your motors are not engaging correctly then I would get that attended to urgently! The motors (both) drive a single endless spring loop and if that gets damaged it might be difficult to replace!
Geoff
2001 Aero V6, AFT, full side conversion.
Image Spherical Visions
User avatar
dave_aber
Supreme Being
Posts: 2884
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Elgin, Scotland

Re: bloomin roof

Post by dave_aber » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:52 pm

Is it a single endless loop?

I thought it was a pair of cables with a coiled outer face which acted as the rack to the motors' pinions.

I've been wondering how they synchronise for a wee while, as I have a project in my head which a pair of roof motors may be the answer to......

A single loop would explain how they synch. But raise more questions.


Off to look at lushprojects. IIRC that drawing isn't very clear!
Image...Image
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
User avatar
g8dhe
Supreme Being
Posts: 10179
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
Contact:

Re: bloomin roof

Post by g8dhe » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:51 pm

The single endless loop is something I read on the forum here, a while back now, and its like the old coiled spring used for net curtains as far as I could see when I did my motors a while back, hence in the tube it becomes "solid" under compression but still flexible for the bends. Both sides are driven by the motor on each side so there should be a fixed amount of coil between motors and sliders and between motors going across the back.
If that all makes sense!
Geoff
2001 Aero V6, AFT, full side conversion.
Image Spherical Visions
User avatar
dave_aber
Supreme Being
Posts: 2884
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Elgin, Scotland

Re: bloomin roof

Post by dave_aber » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:16 pm

I understood the make-up of the coil/cable, but I thought it was a pair, where the front end of each was attached to the sliding "raising bars" within the lifting mechanism, and the other "tail" ends crossing over behind the tent area to give them somewhere to go.

I just can't see how (if I have the mechanics right) they are synchronised, unless electrically.

If it's a single endless loop, that makes sense regarding the synchronisation, but in that case how does the cable attach to the "raising bars" (I'm sure they have a 'real' name)
Image...Image
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
User avatar
g8dhe
Supreme Being
Posts: 10179
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
Contact:

Re: bloomin roof

Post by g8dhe » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:54 pm

I assume - never looked that closely - that there a screw in rod with tab sticking out, or perhaps that is where the joins are with sections connected via the sliders ?
There is no electrical sync, the two motors are just in parallel.
Geoff
2001 Aero V6, AFT, full side conversion.
Image Spherical Visions
novocaine
Bongonaut
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:56 am
Location: Warrington

Re: bloomin roof

Post by novocaine » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:46 am

Geoff Motors are still in place. its the back place that has come adrift of the roof mounts, no where for the imps to get out of the box.

the roof is going up again soon and will be chocked up whilst I get the motor mounts sorted, then I'll trace the wires through and check them for faults. after that it is going to Ian's for a look by someone used to them as it will no doubt be something he has seen before. trying to eliminate the obvious first to cut down on the about of work he has to do.

thanks chaps.
User avatar
cmm303
Supreme Being
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:10 pm
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire

Re: bloomin roof

Post by cmm303 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:08 pm

This old thread, though addressing a different AFT problem, gives a good explanation of how the motors drive the roof. http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... ve#p593363
Chris with BertieB
'96 White unconverted AFT 2.5L Diesel 4WD
User avatar
dave_aber
Supreme Being
Posts: 2884
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 4:33 pm
Location: Elgin, Scotland

Re: bloomin roof

Post by dave_aber » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:33 pm

Ah, that explains it. 2 teleflex cables, but the tail of one loops round to the other (and vice-versa) to keep them in sync.
Image...Image
There are 10 types of people in this world.
Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Post Reply

Return to “Techie Stuff”