Overheating: The Statistics

Technical questions and answers about the Mazda Bongo

Moderators: Doone, westonwarrior

lindeelu

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by lindeelu » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:48 pm

Just for what it's worth, the silicone hoses should be fitted with constant pressure hose clamps.
They look same as a normal clamp but have a spring segment inside the band so when contraction occurs the clamping pressure doesn't reduce and let the coolant weep.
User avatar
missfixit70
Supreme Being
Posts: 12431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:53 pm
Location: weymouth

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by missfixit70 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:00 pm

lindeelu wrote:Just for what it's worth, the silicone hoses should be fitted with constant pressure hose clamps.
They look same as a normal clamp but have a spring segment inside the band so when contraction occurs the clamping pressure doesn't reduce and let the coolant weep.
That's the conclusion I'd come to, but they ain't cheap from what I can see & most silicon hose suppliers just use a standard jubilee clip :roll:
You can't polish a turd - but you can roll it in glitter.
User avatar
Doone
Supreme Being
Posts: 2839
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:58 am
Location: Devon
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by Doone » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:03 pm

'fraid not. It means that 18.3% (i.e. 18.3 in a hundred) of those that know they whether or not they have had a new head have had a new one. The percentage of those with a new head that don't know they've had a new head is unknown - but it's likely to be lower IMHO. If that's true, this would bring down the figure lower than 18.3%.
These figures show 18.3% if done with the do knows, 10% if done as a result of the survey. If the survey was done randomly, we would presumably get nearer to the 5%. But it wasn't and can still be usefull.
119 out of 651... Now we know why I was sooo bad at maths. :lol:
What I do know is that you probably see more than the average head job as they would be making a bee line for your garage. What are your statistics?
I'd ask him, but I expect I'll sleep better not knowing. :wink:
Allan's closed. We recommend PGS (Plymouth Garage Services) or Mayflower Auto Services in Plymouth.
User avatar
mikexgough
Supreme Being
Posts: 6158
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire - where the all the Slodgers reside
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by mikexgough » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:05 pm

mikeonb4c wrote: I believe Previas, Hiaces (is it?) and some other ageing (diesel?) cars with complex plumbing, owners who may more not be enthusiastic DIY car maintenance people etc. are also known to end up having to have heads replaced?
That for the Toyota's is mixing incompatable coolants......... Toyota have a coolant that is formulated for themselves.......called funnily enough Toyota Red..........and it doesn't play with all the other children in the coolant playground.......hence gelling and sludging.....= New Head etc.
The Toyota club always recommend the Factory Red coolant.......
Conversant with Bongo Top Pinion Oil Seals

Bongo owning Velotech Cycle Mechanic
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:08 pm

mikexgough wrote:
mikeonb4c wrote: I believe Previas, Hiaces (is it?) and some other ageing (diesel?) cars with complex plumbing, owners who may more not be enthusiastic DIY car maintenance people etc. are also known to end up having to have heads replaced?
That for the Toyota's is mixing incompatable coolants......... Toyota have a coolant that is formulated for themselves.......called funnily enough Toyota Red..........and it doesn't play with all the other children in the coolant playground.......hence gelling and sludging.....= New Head etc.
The Toyota club always recommend the Factory Red coolant.......
But surely one of the main (other) reasons for problems should not be overlooked i.e. undetected coolant leaks that are linked to being old, having complex plumbing, and owners that don't think to keep a close eye on things. The common element may be a susceptibility of high compression diesel engines of a certain construction (iron blokc, alloy head?) to head (or gasket) failure after an overheat?
Glenda
Bongolier
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:00 pm
Location: Hove

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by Glenda » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:01 pm

missfixit70 wrote:Doone is Lorna, not Allan :wink:
I know force of habit. I am so used to Allan being under a car when I try to contact him that I have got used to communicating through Doone. It always gets through.

So how happy will Allan be tonight when he rolls in after a day inside an engine to be asked what percentage of Bongos he has seen through his workshop have a new head? :lol: :lol:

Around 5% happy I would have thought.
User avatar
mikexgough
Supreme Being
Posts: 6158
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire - where the all the Slodgers reside
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by mikexgough » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:47 pm

mikeonb4c wrote:
mikexgough wrote:
mikeonb4c wrote: I believe Previas, Hiaces (is it?) and some other ageing (diesel?) cars with complex plumbing, owners who may more not be enthusiastic DIY car maintenance people etc. are also known to end up having to have heads replaced?
That for the Toyota's is mixing incompatable coolants......... Toyota have a coolant that is formulated for themselves.......called funnily enough Toyota Red..........and it doesn't play with all the other children in the coolant playground.......hence gelling and sludging.....= New Head etc.
The Toyota club always recommend the Factory Red coolant.......
But surely one of the main (other) reasons for problems should not be overlooked i.e. undetected coolant leaks that are linked to being old, having complex plumbing, and owners that don't think to keep a close eye on things. The common element may be a susceptibility of high compression diesel engines of a certain construction (iron blokc, alloy head?) to head (or gasket) failure after an overheat?
Estima's etc are almost always.....b*ggered up with mixed coolants...... G11 Toyota Red ......mixed with Cheapo UK G12 in the main..... it's getting to be lesser of an issue with the Red G12+ coolant but as I have said before the Long Life properties of the G12+ is wiped out when mixed with the Toyota Red.....
As I said before the Toyota guys always recommend factory red.... As for plumbing......doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with the estimas.... :-k
Conversant with Bongo Top Pinion Oil Seals

Bongo owning Velotech Cycle Mechanic
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:45 pm

mikexgough wrote: Estima's etc are almost always.....b*ggered up with mixed coolants...... G11 Toyota Red ......mixed with Cheapo UK G12 in the main..... it's getting to be lesser of an issue with the Red G12+ coolant but as I have said before the Long Life properties of the G12+ is wiped out when mixed with the Toyota Red.....
As I said before the Toyota guys always recommend factory red.... As for plumbing......doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with the estimas.... :-k
Hmmm - chat on Estima owners forum seems to be much like ours in repsect of 2.2 diesel. I found talk about ageing, leaking poorly maintained cooling systems but not - on a quick inspection - coolant types as being the prime cause of overheating. Didn't get v. far checking out Hiaces as club needs you to register and my dinners about to go in the dog and I'm hungry so want to get to it first :lol:
Alison01326
Supreme Being
Posts: 2950
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:39 am
Location: South Cornwall (by the sea!)
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by Alison01326 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:57 pm

As I was driving along today with one eye on the temperature gauge and the other on the road :oops: I thought of something which may affect the survey results.

Whilst there's no denying that Bongos (particularly diesel ones, it appears) have coolant issues I thought to myself that if my Bongo had suffered any sort of coolant issue in the two and a bit months in which I had owned it before I joined the forum it would have completely down to ignorance. I knew nothing of checking header tanks and hoses when I bought it, nor did I know about the temperature gauge being a waste of space. Apart from a cursory glance at the coolant level now and again (once, maybe twice in thos couple of months) I paid no heed to any potential issues as I didn't know there were any.

I am now very careful and do my best to avoid coolant problems.

I wonder how many problems could have been avoided with prior knowledge, how many people joined this forum purely to find out about what happened, and how many people have "always known". Don't know how this would be built into the survey, but ignorance and negligence could play a part in the problems. Wonder how many Bongos would have suffered problems if NO-ONE knew that they could, and we all drove round without coolant alarms, mason alarms and that small degree of paranoia that membership of this forum has instilled in us. All of them?
Alison

The traveller sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see. (G K Chesterton)
User avatar
lizard
Supreme Being
Posts: 1208
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:28 pm
Location: Somerset

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by lizard » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:04 pm

missfixit70 wrote:
Ian wrote:
missfixit70 wrote: Length of ownership will have an effect too, if you've had a bongo for 4 years, it's more likely to have had an issue than if you've had it for 2 months.
Not true! If you have owned a Bongo for less than 2 months, and bought it from an unreliable source, the chances are that the radiator is more likely to be blocked because it is blocked.
May be blocked, but how many people don't know they have a problem, happily driving around doing the school run, shopping, etc with the heater part of the cooling system & a partially blocked rad happily coping as it's never really put under load & then when they load up the bongo & hook up the caravan thestat & rad are actually asked to do something & can't it all goes tits up, so I stand by my initial statement :wink: :lol:

I can drive thirty, forty miles or so in cold weather and the bottom hose stays cold. When getting home and letting it tick over, the stat opens and the rad gets a good flush when reaching correct temprature. As said above, driving locally, along with shoddy maintenance, rusty sediment would build up and could stay there for years.

Maintain correctly, as I have had trouble due to rusty pipes and perished hoses due to bad maintenance. Bought it from a well known dealer and had trouble as soon as I arrived home despite a P.D.I and a recent service. Be vigilant.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.

F Zappa
User avatar
missfixit70
Supreme Being
Posts: 12431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:53 pm
Location: weymouth

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by missfixit70 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:08 pm

lizard wrote: Maintain correctly, as I have had trouble due to rusty pipes and perished hoses due to bad maintenance. Bought it from a well known dealer and had trouble as soon as I arrived home despite a P.D.I and a recent service. Be vigilant.
Prime example of coolant either being mixed incompatibly or too low in concentration on the anti corrosive side.
You can't polish a turd - but you can roll it in glitter.
User avatar
dandywarhol
Supreme Being
Posts: 5446
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by dandywarhol » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:04 pm

mikeonb4c wrote:
mikexgough wrote: Estima's etc are almost always.....b*ggered up with mixed coolants...... G11 Toyota Red ......mixed with Cheapo UK G12 in the main..... it's getting to be lesser of an issue with the Red G12+ coolant but as I have said before the Long Life properties of the G12+ is wiped out when mixed with the Toyota Red.....
As I said before the Toyota guys always recommend factory red.... As for plumbing......doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with the estimas.... :-k
Hmmm - chat on Estima owners forum seems to be much like ours in repsect of 2.2 diesel. I found talk about ageing, leaking poorly maintained cooling systems but not - on a quick inspection - coolant types as being the prime cause of overheating. Didn't get v. far checking out Hiaces as club needs you to register and my dinners about to go in the dog and I'm hungry so want to get to it first :lol:
The 2.2/2.4 Toyota seems to be problematic in the cooling area - antifreeze may be the culprit.................the 2.8 non turbo and 3.0 turbo are fine.
Whale oil beef hooked
Renault Lunar Telstar
Yamaha TD1C 250, Merc SLK200, KTM Duke 690
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:49 pm

dandywarhol wrote:
mikeonb4c wrote:
mikexgough wrote: Estima's etc are almost always.....b*ggered up with mixed coolants...... G11 Toyota Red ......mixed with Cheapo UK G12 in the main..... it's getting to be lesser of an issue with the Red G12+ coolant but as I have said before the Long Life properties of the G12+ is wiped out when mixed with the Toyota Red.....
As I said before the Toyota guys always recommend factory red.... As for plumbing......doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with the estimas.... :-k
Hmmm - chat on Estima owners forum seems to be much like ours in repsect of 2.2 diesel. I found talk about ageing, leaking poorly maintained cooling systems but not - on a quick inspection - coolant types as being the prime cause of overheating. Didn't get v. far checking out Hiaces as club needs you to register and my dinners about to go in the dog and I'm hungry so want to get to it first :lol:
The 2.2/2.4 Toyota seems to be problematic in the cooling area - antifreeze may be the culprit.................the 2.8 non turbo and 3.0 turbo are fine.
But might this be an age related thing i.e. 2.2 engine is fitted to the older models (I don't know, but it is one very possible explanation)? And just to reiterate, a quick visit to their owners club site seemed to confirm what Alison has said above i.e. ageing vehicles and ignorance don't mix well (bit like incompatible antifreeze #-o )
User avatar
mikeonb4c
Supreme Being
Posts: 22871
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
Contact:

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:53 pm

Alison01326 wrote:As I was driving along today with one eye on the temperature gauge and the other on the road :oops: I thought of something which may affect the survey results.

Whilst there's no denying that Bongos (particularly diesel ones, it appears) have coolant issues I thought to myself that if my Bongo had suffered any sort of coolant issue in the two and a bit months in which I had owned it before I joined the forum it would have completely down to ignorance. I knew nothing of checking header tanks and hoses when I bought it, nor did I know about the temperature gauge being a waste of space. Apart from a cursory glance at the coolant level now and again (once, maybe twice in thos couple of months) I paid no heed to any potential issues as I didn't know there were any.

I am now very careful and do my best to avoid coolant problems.

I wonder how many problems could have been avoided with prior knowledge, how many people joined this forum purely to find out about what happened, and how many people have "always known". Don't know how this would be built into the survey, but ignorance and negligence could play a part in the problems. Wonder how many Bongos would have suffered problems if NO-ONE knew that they could, and we all drove round without coolant alarms, mason alarms and that small degree of paranoia that membership of this forum has instilled in us. All of them?
A very good post, and I agree with you. The lucky ones wise up before the car springs a leak. It has to be said on this score, that Haydns initiative with the LCA was very good news for Bongo owners. I've slept much better since fitting one (and yes I know there are examples of it not going off, but I think there are a lot more examples of when it has, and has saved the day).

But of course system leaks are only half the problem. The other half (that of clogged systems) is more intractable but generally, if you were lucky anough to buy one with a clean system and you take care to avoid undetected coolant loss, then you should be OK.
bigdaddycain
Supreme Being
Posts: 10637
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:58 am
Location: Ince Lancs

Re: Overheating: The Statistics

Post by bigdaddycain » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:19 pm

I have an LCA, i rely on it to give me a "cold start in the morning confirmation beep" of no overnight coolant loss... On the move its the mason alarm all day long for me! The mason picks up on slight temp variations very quickly, and properly adjusted is an absolute lifeline IMO.
ビッグダディケイン RIP Big Bank Hank (Imp the Dimp) 1957-2014
Post Reply

Return to “Techie Stuff”