Kilometers !!!

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tlshannon
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Kilometers !!!

Post by tlshannon » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi All,

I have a bongo 2.5ltr turbo diesel auto, AFT, I had a crash 4 weeks ago, its a cat C write off, the insurance company made me an offer, I disputed this offer as too low, they asked the engineer who wrote the report to call me, after a week and three chase up calls from me I have spoken to him and he said he has offered me the market value, I have spent 4k on parts and labour in the past 2 years, the engine was perfect, I said my my mileage is in kilometres, he says its miles ? I have every form from before and after import, every service, part and labour receipt

Any advice would be appreciated, I've looked into buying it back and having it repaired its still an option

This is my first accident in over 30 years, I will not use this insurance broker or company in the future, the service has been slow, disrespectful and frankly useless, I will buy insurance which pays out the guaranteed vehicle value in the future as what I have been offered will not pay for another van like I had and what I spent on it
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by Bob » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:04 pm

Hopefuly your MOT history will show total distance as kilometers so job done.

Failing that (I think the garage computer defaults to miles and may not have been altered) is it driveable?

If so you could suggest matey sits with you while you drive a known 3 miles which would clock up 5 kms.

Printing a pile of ads for vehicles very similar to yours may help but sadly it is very common for insurers to undervalue Bongos, just keep at em. :mrgreen:
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Simon Jones
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by Simon Jones » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:14 pm

MOT certificates used to show miles or Km but I've noticed my recent ones just showed the odometer reading and not the units of measure. What do the previous MOT documents show? Have you checked the online MOT checker to see what it says? https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

Unless the speedo had been changed to the GA5R model or there is a speedo chip fitted then it will be still reading in Km. Is the van still driveable? Could you get an independent engineer to provide a report to verify the reading is in Km?

Bear in mind, if you buy it back, it will be at a percentage of the settlement value (sometimes around 16%) so the higher he valuation, the more it will cost you.
teenmal
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by teenmal » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:46 pm

Personally I would go for the highest valuation and forget about the Pie in the Sky buy it back minefield option ,its up to the engineer /assessor to prove that the totalizer is in fact Miles and Not Kilometres if they dispute the facts.

This could also be referred to the Trading Standards.

Good luck
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cmm303
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by cmm303 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:53 pm

Simon Jones wrote: ...
Is the van still driveable? Could you get an independent engineer to provide a report to verify the reading is in Km?
...
how about driving with a GPS or Satnav displaying distance. Video both GPS and odo together. Would they believe that?
Chris with BertieB
'96 White unconverted AFT 2.5L Diesel 4WD
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by Bob » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:53 pm

Insurance companies will write off vehicle with very little damage, especially older ones, to avoid costly car rental and storage so 'Buy Back' can be a good deal.

This will depend on actual damage and your DIY abilities or relationship with a good repairer, but bear in mind that once fixed it will always be worth less then a not damaged/repaired vehicle.

This may not be an issue if you plan to keep it long term but you could loose out if you have to sell in a couple of years.

Bear in mind you are the legal owner and someone can only take it off you with your agreement. Insurance companies can be rather intimidating and know you need transport.

Footnote: If you have a personal plate put it on 'Retention' before you sell or let them write it off, plates can't be transfered from a write off.
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helen&tony
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by helen&tony » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:38 am

Hi
If you feel the offer is low, haggle. Insurance companies always start with a low offer. The value is nothing to do with what you spent on it...that's just maintenance and repair, and won't add to the value...the actual condition sets the value. As regards the insurance assessor, they are most likely office staff, who will assess the value based on what they read in adverts...we had this with a CSMA "assessor" many many years ago....they offered valuation on an absolutely MINT car that did barely 1000 miles a year, and the assessor admitted it was based on him READING THE EXCHANGE AND MART!!!!!!!...we asked if he'd seen the vehicles advertised, he admitted he hadn't, and we produced valuations from 2 independent registered car traders (personal friends). The company coughed up a proper offer.
I'm afraid it'll take a time, but you'll have to fight, after all, insurance companies are in it for their profit
Cheers
Helen
In the beginning there was nothing , then God said "Let there be Light".....There was still nothing , but ,by crikey, you could see it better.
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by rita » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:29 am

Don't know about the use of THE EXCHANGE AND MART but the many Assessors that we have dealt with use the "Bible" its a guide only available to the Motor trade. (grey imports could be a problem)

One of my friends is an Insurance Assessor and a very qualified experienced engineer.
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Simon Jones
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by Simon Jones » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:43 am

I recently had a Volvo written off and the offer from Admiral was the retail price as taken from Glass's price guide. I was more than happy to accept their first offer as it really was top whack and was way more than I could have hoped to have sold it for privately. It was also 3x higher than the webuyanycar.com valuation in it's pre damaged condition.

Try contacting a local car dealer who has access to Glass's and ask he he can look up the valuation (assuming its even listed being an older grey import). That's how I found out the offer I was made was correct. They do have an online valuation but I've never used it myself http://www.glass.co.uk/
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helen&tony
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by helen&tony » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:52 pm

Hi
Rita
What I said is true!...maybe you don't believe me, that's your choice, but the guy actually asked my mother to go and look at a particular replacement vehicle...no need, the 'photos in the E&M were enough, and the difference in condition was simply unbelievable...the guy was a complete (....). It happened then, and I don't doubt it goes on now...the "bible"...glass's guide is what it says...it's a guide, and most vehicle traders have a "nose" for price, which can be way above book retail, or way below book trade.....which largely depends on condition, popularity, mileage, availability or scarcity of a given model, and many factors...The traders we got to verify the condition of that vehicle both worked at different ends of the spectrum...one was a bread and butter man, and the other exotic sports neither one would deal in the other's vehicles, as they were specialists...neither would know the other's market (retail or trade), so the chances of an assessor really knowing every car's inherent value is slim...qualified or not, and the first offer is ALWAYS low....it's the assessor's job not to "give" the insurers money away, but then it's the customer's job to prove it's worth more...
As it happens, I earned money whilst at Uni, picking up cars for a few traders, all introduced by my sister's "ex", as they liked a driver who could keep a confidence on the whereabouts they bought their trade cars, and none carried a "bible", as they knew the business of buying, and the price paid was just what they decided , and not what a book says...there's no "business" in looking what a book says, and buying...or everybody would be doing it :lol: ...I've often seen them buying a fair few vehicles at a time without looking at them, I'd drive one home, one at a time , and , hell, some were fun!....In a few years, I got a good education at Uni, and another in buying cars!... :lol:
In the end analysis, the value of what you're buying or selling is the ACTUAL market value, and that's what the customer wants to pay as per the retail magazines...so the assessor wasn't wrong....but he was a bit of a (,,,,) for not understanding the condition...however, with two proper trader's letters, we got a fair price in the end!....
Moral of the saga...Glass's guide is for punters...not traders
Cheers
Helen
In the beginning there was nothing , then God said "Let there be Light".....There was still nothing , but ,by crikey, you could see it better.
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by rita » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:13 pm

"Hi
Rita
What I said is true!...maybe you don't believe me, that's your choice,"



Sorry if that is the impression that you got, I can assure you that is not the case, I have no reason whatsoever to doubt your word.
Often things can be misconstrued on forums Facebook etc it is unfortunately becoming a way of life.

As we say in Scotland ...We are all Jock Tamsons Bairns.

:lol: :lol:

Good Luck
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helen&tony
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by helen&tony » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:09 am

Hi Rita
No...I didn't take it the wrong way...no problem...just stressing that all is not what it seems on insurance...plus I'm just over-stressing the fact that any "dealer" showing you what "the bible" says probably takes you for a sucker...because the REAL price is what you can buy a vehicle for in the popular press...the "bible" is often way out. especially with vehicles like the Bongo....they are now as cultish as the VW, and I was looking around at prices a while back...same year VWs are often cheaper!!!!..which kind of makes owning a Bongo a good deal....plus the fact that VWs are a tad more basic....
IF a Bongo is in good nick, and regularly maintained properly, I would expect a proper payout from an insurer. Photographs should help, plus past MOTs to show there's never been a problem, and then pay a reliable firm for a true estimation of value based on the "shown" evidence....and as I stated, most insurers make the first offer a shade on the derisory side....can't blame them for trying!...
Cheers
Helen
In the beginning there was nothing , then God said "Let there be Light".....There was still nothing , but ,by crikey, you could see it better.
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Simon Jones
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by Simon Jones » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:44 am

I've often wondered if insurance companies that charge the lowest premiums are more likely to offer pay outs at the lower end of the scale. You certainly wouldn't expect them to still be in business if they paid the highest.
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helen&tony
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by helen&tony » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:28 am

Hi Simon
You got it in one....I posted my experience with a cheaper company when I joined Bongo Fury....or maybe a bit after...anyway, it was years ago, and the only time I had used a cheap company, as I was caught "on the hop" as the Bongo was a spur of the moment purchase...because I needed a transporter. The case in mind was an insurance company trying to claim money from me because I hit a car and drove off....very clever considering I was 65 miles away :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ....The owner of the car hit was with my insurer.....and they were going on someone reporting a number plate which was nearly the same as mine!!!!!!....Bongos were rare then, and they don't actually look like a car!!!!!...so I got the local rag interested, they took a picture, and wrote up my story....and one very embarrassed insurance company wrote with an apology .Normally I didn't go with cheap companies, and I used Norwich Union Lady Motoring....(that shows how long ago)....I used their "Rider Policy" for my 'bikes as well....I started using them when I bought a new Guzzi to replace my ol' Honda 4
There was a survey of insurance companies when house break-ins started being common, and the items stolen were car keys (expensive vehicles)....Keys are usually left on the hall table :wink: and the cars were stolen later. The insurance companies were all asked whether they would cough up for the keys on an insurance claim , so that a future pay-out would be prevented in terms of loss.....Guess what?....the cheap companies said it was down to the owner, and they probably wouldn't pay up in the event of the car being stolen with the keys!....Norwich Union and one other said they'd pay for the keys, to avoid total loss payment.
I think the above sentence more or less says it all...but I always dreaded the thought of someone walking out in front of me without looking, and me being unable to stop....it always haunted me that a crap company might not pay out properly!
Cheers
Helen
In the beginning there was nothing , then God said "Let there be Light".....There was still nothing , but ,by crikey, you could see it better.
tlshannon
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Re: Kilometers !!!

Post by tlshannon » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:17 pm

Thank you for all of your replies - I have all the old mot documents - they say kilometres, the newer ones do not say either miles or kilometres, so I have copied and e-mailed that info over

All the replies, give me some good ideas and back up what I thought and will help me to resolve the issues I have with his valuation, after talking with this guy on the phone, I agreed to nothing, I did think he was just an office employee, sitting looking at auto trader and e-bay, looking at random Bongos with no specification details and no idea of the market, which is one of the reasons I did not value his opinion

Cheers again guys and girls I hope to see you all at a Bash in the future, in my new van - i'll let you know the outcome
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