Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

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trevd01

Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by trevd01 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:29 am

Members of the forum who have written off Bongos or had them stolen can find it difficult to establish a value with the insurance company.

If you write off a normal car the insurer will use the CAP Black Book or Glasses Guide to base a price on. They can't do this with Bongos as they are not listed.

BUT, and I don't know whether anyone else has spotted this - MMM magazine has listed used Bongo prices this month (Feb 08 ). AFAIK this is the first time they have been listed. This is a in a section where they list values of second hand 'motorhomes' in a different category this month.

This month it's 'pop-tops' (what MMM calls Bongos and raising roof VWs etc).


The prices listed are for full Montague and Wellhouse conversions and are all 2.5 diesels:
  • Montague
    1995 £10.2k
    1996 £10.7k
    1997 £12.5k
    1999 £16.5k
    2000 £15.9k
    2001 £17.6k
  • Wellhouse
    1995 £12.0k
    1999 £20.0k
    2000 £20.0k
I think this is a very important piece of information, and of great value in a discussion with an insurer you hope you will never take place.

[See update below added 26/7/08 showing August 08 prices]
Last edited by trevd01 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
trekie

Post by trekie » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:21 pm

hi trevor,
when we lost galileo and NIG contacted us about an offer(which we rejected), we were contacted by the their engineer. he explained how he came to his "valuation" he explained that as the bongo is a grey import and not shown in the usual publications. he first considered age and condition(dificult to do with a burnt out shell!) and then he went on auto trader and looked at prices. he looked at 3 close to where we live and then did an average of three prices. as the lowest price was £3995 this affected the offer somewhat but we were able to get a much better offer which we accepted. it helped that jan was also on auto trader at the time he rang as they were both singing off the same songsheet. so it helps to be near a computer when they ring.

cheers

alex and jan
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Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:51 pm

Makes me more and more inclined to think Bongo owners need a different kind of insurance trekie :evil:
papa joe

Post by papa joe » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:48 pm

Unconverted Bongos are listed in CAP grey import guide, which is a trade only publication, remember that guides are exactly what they say a GUIDE .
Settlement will be at market value unless a value has been agreed when setting up the policy.

Be realistic concerning the value and back it up with research :wink:

cheers pj
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices

Post by David Edwards » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:15 pm

So is there a similar price chart for flat tops like mine then. P reg 96 manual.
trevd01

Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices

Post by trevd01 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:37 am

Update August 08

MMM magazine has again listed used Bongo prices this month (Aug 08 ). This is a in a section where they list values of second hand 'motorhomes' in a different category each month.

This month it's 'fixed and raising roofs' .

The prices listed are for full Montague and Wellhouse conversions and are all 2.5 diesels:

Montague
1995 £10.2k
1996 £10.7k
1997 £12.5k
1999 £16.5k
2000 £15.9k
2001 £17.6k

Wellhouse
1995 £13.0k
1999 £20.0k
2000 £20.0k

Although the prices from Montague are the same, the eagle -eyed among you will notice the Wellhouse '95 price is £1000 more than the February listing.

You could conclude from this that branded full conversions don't depreciate... :D
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by madmile » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:45 pm

No, But you could conclude that the people who write guides just make it up :lol: .
trevd01

Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by trevd01 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:42 am

I can't edit the first post at the top of this topic now but if I could I would clarify it as follows:
trevd01 should have wrote:If you write off a normal car the insurer will use the CAP Black Book or Glasses Guide to base a price on. They can't do this with converted Bongos as they are not listed.
(should have written, of course, but the quote syntax does not allow me to say that :D )
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by Ron Miel » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:29 am

If you've got a professionally converted Bongo camper, first registered in the UK as a "motorcaravan" by that converter before sale, and you've got a proper motorhome/motorcaravan policy, don't let any insurance assessor tell you (and don't tell them!) it's a grey import - for licensing and insurance purposes, it is not. See:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... da#p380027

Also see:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... da#p372784

In those circumstances, refer them to your converter for the current replacement valuation - better still, ask them to get the motor recovered to the converter's premises for assessment there.
Last edited by Ron Miel on Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by MountainGoat » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:15 am

Ron do you think that this could be the reason why Liverpool Victoria refused dandywarhol and myself insurance last month. I told them that my Bongo was both professionally converted to a campervan and also a Grey Import and was refused insurance on grounds that it was a Grey Import. Liverpool Victoria currently insure both my house and my Jeep Cherokee and I was hoping for a second car discount.

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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by Ron Miel » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:58 am

MountainGoat wrote:Ron do you think that this could be the reason why Liverpool Victoria refused dandywarhol and myself insurance last month. I told them that my Bongo was both professionally converted to a campervan and also a Grey Import and was refused insurance on grounds that it was a Grey Import. Liverpool Victoria currently insure both my house and my Jeep Cherokee and I was hoping for a second car discount.

Tony
Hi Tony
I think it depends first on whether you were trying to insure it on their general car policy, which will doubtless only cover UK type approved/EC listed vehicles - or on a dedicated motorhome/motorcaravan policy, if they offer one.

Then, as in the case of Saga, referred to in one of the links, not even all motorhome/motorcaravan insurers fully recognise that "grey import" is irrelevant in the case of motorcaravan-first-registered vehicles.

To be honest though (and on further reflection), I only came a cropper with Saga because another owner told them that their Bongo motorcaravan was a grey import - and maybe it was, as I don't think we were told its first UK registration status. Anyway, I remember now that Saga's system was imperfect because their Motorhome Policy's online application did not ask for details of the base vehicle's origin, and whether it was UK type approved - or whether it was an exemption-qualifying, motorcaravan-first-registered, vehicle. It just assumed the latter, until told otherwise.

As I said elsewhere, motorcaravans first UK registered as such are vehicle manufacturer type approval exempt, and are UK approved directly between the converter and VOSA, without then featuring in EC-wide type approved vehicle lists, for licensing and insurance purposes.

The problem then was simply that Saga's clerical admin people of course got cold feet as soon as grey import/not type approved was mentioned, even though it was irrelevant, in my case at least - and so they decided no Bongos at all, without ever taking proper account of their first UK registration status. At that point, I felt that their left hand didn't know what their right hand was doing (apparently normal for Saga), and decided not to waste any more time with them.

Imperial recommended me to instead go to (much smaller) Safeguard, whose staff do understand what's what.

Cheers
David
Last edited by Ron Miel on Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by MountainGoat » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:14 pm

Thanks for the explanation David. I am with Highway now, a subsidary of Liverpool Victoria, after Lifesure / Nig bumped up both my basic premium and policy excess for no apparent reason after two years with them. Might give Safeguard a go next year.

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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by Ron Miel » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:11 pm

Ron Miel wrote:If you've got a professionally converted Bongo camper, first registered in the UK as a "motorcaravan" by that converter before sale, and you've got a proper motorhome/motorcaravan policy, don't let any insurance assessor tell you (and don't tell them!) it's a grey import - for licensing and insurance purposes, it is not. See:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... da#p380027

Also see:

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... da#p372784

In those circumstances, refer them to your converter for the current replacement valuation - better still, ask them to get the motor recovered to the converter's premises for assessment there.
Have read this up in more detail at the VOSA and DirectGov websites, this morning, and have now:

1.) Edited in the words "for licensing and insurance purposes," in para one above. The regular motor trade of course still regards them as grey imports in the sense of not imported through regular manufacturers' distribution channels, and therefore taking business from them. Aah!

2.) The posting linked from the first topic link above, has been edited/updated.
Last edited by Ron Miel on Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by g8dhe » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:07 pm

Ron do you have the links to the VOSA and DirectGov sites where this info. is, as an Insurer is more likely to believe them then just people quoting that "I read on a forum ..." if you see what I mean!
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Re: Useful Information: Published Bongo Prices - Aug 08

Post by Ron Miel » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:21 pm

g8dhe wrote:Ron do you have the links to the VOSA and DirectGov sites where this info. is, as an Insurer is more likely to believe them then just people quoting that "I read on a forum ..." if you see what I mean!
Well, most of it can be found on, or via (all over the place!), these pages, Geoff:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Bu ... DG_4022105

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Bu ... /DG_177879

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/

However, best advice must surely be to not go there, unless the insurer is already jumpy - in which case, find out now, and change to Safeguard if they are and if you have a type approval and SVA-exempt, motorcaravan-first-registered, converted Bongo.

Converted Bongos are type approval and SVA-exempt, if first UK registered as motorcaravans, and that's why they don't appear on type approved vehicle lists - that's all the insurer needs to know, to ensure that he's insuring a street legal vehicle. As long as you're insured on a motorhome/motorcaravan-specific policy such as Safeguard, which takes account of that, then type approval listing doesn't come into it, and grey import is irrelevant.

In the SVA scheme, as opposed to the old SVLA, government does try to jump the gun (before IVA hits us in 2012) by now offering voluntary SVA for motorcaravans, for anybody twitchy enough to feel they must have that - and that might be influenced by some insurers, I guess.

Just don't insure with anybody that wants that - it doesn't alter the fact that, until 29 April 2012, Bongo motorcaravans are type approval and SVA-exempt if UK first-registered as such before that date.

David
Last edited by Ron Miel on Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
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