Euro 5 vs Euro 6 vs older diesels

[BongoBongo123]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36589106

Well I reckon we are below 18C here for 7 months of the year and night driving 11months of the year.

I found this of interest and wondered if this meant in fact that an old yet well maintained Bongo engine might be potentially less polluting than a new diesel one. When I drive around I often see a diesel engine on a 4-10 y.o. car/van send a thick black plume of smoke out at gear change when accelerating. Then at more consistent revs it seems to emit less. To my knowledge my Bongo emits no visible smoke even shortly after turnover. I can only hazard a guess that more smoke means more pollution particulants. Although I do not know how visible pollutants might affect NOX levels that are present ?

All this new tech that they add to a diesel car in the name of being more environmentally friendly is potentially a deceitful way of taking more of your money. This so called "tech" also generates CO2 because it has to be manufactured in the first place and then uses rare earth metals such as Cerium (Ce). Extraction of this from the earths crust along with the energy used to make these things is probably worse than the emissions it is trying to reduce!

Luckily the diesel Bongo is exempt from the London "Low emissions zone" signs BS. When I think of London I think the exact opposite of low emissions. I think of greatest emissions possible instead which is based in living in the real world.

I do wonder if all this emissions lark is really just a way of making you pay an extra £2-3K on the top of a new car for "BlueTech" or for a conversion to your work van for a particulate filter etc. And in fact a well maintained and well driven vehicle will always pollute massively less than this money earning scheme.

I would be really interested to know how clean my diesel is. I like to think I try and emit the least pollution I can do through proper maintenance/servicing etc.

We know diesel emits less CO2 but more NOx + potentially more particulants but you also get 30pct more miles from a diesel than a petrol. (maybe 40 pct if driven for maximum economy) So less fuel is burnt for any given distance and less CO2 generated.

I just completed 546 miles return trip, 3 stops, endless hold ups on 1 tank of bongo diesel, that averages 37.9 mpg and the Bongo is a 2 tonne lump with lots of extras loading it up. Not to mention 60-70 of those miles was through A roads and then B roads through Exmoor. I am very pleased with that kind of economy for a 20 y.o. vehicle.

[mikeonb4c]

I agree with a lot of this bb123. Also, what is the average mileage of a diesel Bongo compared with an average modern diesel car, chosen by high mileage drivers for their supposedly better mpg. And where do Bongos run up their miles: for the most part not in congested urban areas. Finally, i think buses and lorries in congested cities are a prime source of trouble? So even though fiddling the figures for modern cars has been happening, they are not the sole problem.

I suspect the diesel Bongo is not exceptionally clean but how many polluting miles Bongos contribute, the small proportion happening in congested urban locations, the fact that scrapping and replacing has envirinmental cost, and what Bongos are used/useful for, are all factors that, when put together, should point to leaving it (and similar campervans/mpvs being used similarly) alone to work out its natural time.

Overall, the debate over diesel (upon which the world replies hugely for getting people and goods around) needs to move away from headline grabbing and towards rational, realistic balanced debate i reckon.

[Bongolia]

Sadly I think the writing is on the wall for diesels since the WHO judged that diesel particulates are carcinogenic.
Typically the Eurocrats have got themselves in a tangle and have come to realise they now need more legislation to try and resolve a problem they have created instead of re thinking the whole thing through, that of course would be to admit they got it wrong in the first place.

A course I attended recently showed what the future might bring for diesels to be compliant, 3 particulate filters, 2 catalysers and a NOX scrubber.
Bonkers and difficult to achieve economically so much so that the manufacturers risk massaging the figures to gain compliance.
An expensive exercise for VAG as it turned out,10.3 billion dollars expensive.

Still unsure of how I will be voting.

[Diplomat]

What does 'Euro' mean? Shouldn't it be 'Uro'?

I'm looking forward to a massive influx of Japanese made vehicles in future.


Frank

[rita]

Sadly I think the writing is on the wall for diesels since the WHO judged that diesel particulates are carcinogenic.
Typically the Eurocrats have got themselves in a tangle and have come to realise they now need more legislation to try and resolve a problem they have created instead of re thinking the whole thing through, that of course would be to admit they got it wrong in the first place.

A course I attended recently showed what the future might bring for diesels to be compliant, 3 particulate filters, 2 catalysers and a NOX scrubber.
Bonkers and difficult to achieve economically so much so that the manufacturers risk massaging the figures to gain compliance.
An expensive exercise for VAG as it turned out,10.3 billion dollars expensive.

Still unsure of how I will be voting.

Looks like the auld oil burners will be around for a long time to come.

[BongoBongo123]

I have no idea how the particulant content (i.e. the black smoke) relates to NoX levels. I suspect black smoke must be incomplete burning or some other combustion issue (oil is usually more white/grey smoke I think as you can see that when the piston rings have gone on a petrol). And yes buses round my town do seem to emit a lot of black smoke.

Anyway, trying to drive well and keep emissions down here.

I found this:

"Over-fueling is the primary cause of black smoke from the exhaust of a heavy duty diesel engine. Over-fueling can be caused by diesel fuel injector wear that enlarges the nozzle hole or erodes the injector needle and allows excess fuel to flow into the combustion chamber."

http://hddeo.com/Black-Smoke-Cause-Impa ... ntion.html

[mikeonb4c]

I have no idea how the particulant content (i.e. the black smoke) relates to NoX levels. I suspect black smoke must be incomplete burning or some other combustion issue (oil is usually more white/grey smoke I think as you can see that when the piston rings have gone on a petrol). And yes buses round my town do seem to emit a lot of black smoke.

Anyway, trying to drive well and keep emissions down here.

I found this:

"Over-fueling is the primary cause of black smoke from the exhaust of a heavy duty diesel engine. Over-fueling can be caused by diesel fuel injector wear that enlarges the nozzle hole or erodes the injector needle and allows excess fuel to flow into the combustion chamber."

http://hddeo.com/Black-Smoke-Cause-Impa ... ntion.html

I'm not sure, but i think its possible less fuel/power efficient diesels like those in the Bongo produce less NOx. In this article:

http://www.livescience.com/52284-volksw ... enges.html

There is this quote:

"You have power, you have energy, you have emissions: You get to choose two of them," said Don Hillebrand, the director of energy systems research at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois, and the former president of the Society for Automotive Engineers.

Particulate emissions fall to ground fairly quickly and my interpretation there is that for camper vans operating away from urban populations / high traffic congestion the risk to public health is minimal.

Blanking off the EGR system as some Bongo owners have done seems, on the other hand, to increases NOx emissions

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust ... irculation

....although something i read elsewhere suggests it increases particulates.

At least though our Bongos are 'honest' diesels (unlike the ones in recent scandals). Their owners tend to do lower mileages, with an above average number done away from congested urban areas (its what people buy them for!), and their pulling power is invaluable for the work they do. With better mpg than the petrol variants, they should also put out less of whatever they put out mile vs mile.

[Bongolia]

Another good link from Wikepedia covers EGR function in relation to diesel emissions and covers NOx scrubbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

[mikeonb4c]

Another good link from Wikepedia covers EGR function in relation to diesel emissions and covers NOx scrubbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

Interesting bit in that piece discussing diesel particulate (soot) filters, which Bongos don't have but which reinforces the point that Bongos will be less sooty when cruising on the open road:

During the re-generation cycle, most systems require the engine to consume more fuel in a relatively short amount of time in order to generate the high temperatures necessary for the cycle to complete. This adversely affects the overall fuel economy of vehicles equipped with DPF systems, especially in vehicles that are driven mostly in city conditions where frequent acceleration requires a larger amount of fuel to be burned and therefore more soot to collect in the exhaust system.