Go faster - Go Better?

What's the MPG like? Can I use chip fat and veggie oil? What about LPG?

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Tom_B
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Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tom_B » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:18 am

I have had Obie Bongo since September 2015 and have been delighted by it in lots of ways - mostly about what a great little camper it is and I love the whole Japanese design approach to flexibility.

What sometimes has occurred to me is that its performance is a touch flat with 105bhp from the Oil burning 2.5.

I have searched the forum but can't find threads about tuning the Bongo or suchlike. I am wondering if any Bongoneers have made more power by tuning - remap or possibly electronic boost controllers or even manual boost controllers and whether other mods needed to follow like fitting a bigger intercooler etc. ?

thanks!
1996 AWD 2.5 Oil Burning, Slushbox, Stylish bullbars, AFT White & Silver.Unconverted. Aircon!

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Gefail
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Gefail » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:50 am

I thought the 2.5 diesel was 130bhp (V6 180)?
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Rapidair65
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Rapidair65 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:56 am

Look for a post by Helen and Tony. Helen successfully installed water injection to boost performance.
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Tony x
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tony x » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:43 pm

I can't remember who posted the below - credit to whoever it was...

TD Bongo tuning - here we go....

1. EASY Warm the engine up fully. Loosen the lock-nut on the adjuster on the diaphragm on top of the diesel pump. Have the engine ticking over, turn the screw in slowly until the tick-over speed rises slightly then back it off half a turn. This will improve acceleration pick-up.

NOT SO EASY Adjusting the static injection advance. You can loosen the 2 nuts that hold the pump to the block, there is a 3rd nut hidden by the starter motor. Rotate the top of the diesel pump away from the block to advance the injection timing. A little bit of advance can pick up a little power sometimes. Injector timing has a similar effect to ignition timing on a petrol engine. A bit more torque may be able to be picked up. Too much advance and you get "dieseling" or diesel knock, like pinking in a petrol engine. If you get this back off the static advance. There is an auto advance on the pump but I haven't got round to adjusting this (it isn't straight forwards to adjust - DAMN COMPLEX!)

2. FAIRLY EASY For autos, the throttle potentiometer can be adjusted slightly so you can drop into top gear at 40 on only a slight throttle. I will look at mine later as off the top of my head I can't remember which direction to adjust. It only needs adjusting slightly a mm or 2. Suck it and see.

3. A BIT FIDDLY BUT EASYISH For the turbo, if there is any play in the wastegate actuator rod (give it a wiggle along it's length) if there is any play in the rod use thin washers to space the actuator diaphragm away to take the slack out of the rod which helps stop any leak past the wastegate before it opens. This really does help particularly with the bottom end. The actuator can be shimmed more to preload spring to gain more boost but more heat will be created and better intercooling will be needed. An old school adjustable air-bleed fitted to the pressure pipe running to the diaphragm can be used to increase boost as well. MORE ADVANCED

4. ADVANCED STUFF..... The plunger under the diaphragm on the diesel pump has a preload adjuster and also a plastic spacer to limit travel. Reducing the preload will increase fuelling as will removing spacer only needed after serious mods.

5. ADVANCED The ports on the inlet manifold are smaller than the head restricting flow. The inlet manifold is a bit of a bad design as is the bend by the cam cover.

I am thinking of getting some heat shield gaskets made up to reduce heat transfer from the head to the inlet manifold to keep the air cooler going into the engine. EASYISH

6. EASYISH I have made an induction kit using the air inlet pipe to the turbo from a Ford Ranger (same engine) which only has a 90 degree bend, I have added a HKS Mushroom filter to the pipe sited the other side of the chassis rail from the turbo. I eventually hope to extend the pipe work to an airbox situated where the auxiliary batter goes with a cool air feed from the bumper BIT MORE COMPLEX!

The standard airbox is not very good at feeding air to such a big engine.

7. COMPLEX There is a step in the mouth of the turbo which can be smoothed out and the whole mouth can be made more trumpet shaped to improve air flow.

8. FIDDLY Don't just blank EGR but remove the whole lot as heat will be transferred to the inlet manifold. A blanking plate can be made to blank off where it fits the inlet manifold. I cut the EGR pipe and had it weld where it comes out of the exhaust manifold. The nut was stuck fast, a blanking plug would be a neater solution. The EGR diaphragm can be removed no problem.

9. BLOODY COMPLEX! The inlet ports in the head have massive ridges where the valve seat meets the port, smooth out and blend into the port. The exhaust valve seats are similar BUT there isn't much metal there so don't port it too far. I have seen a standard head which had cracked by the valve seat and part of the head had broken away revealing a waterway.

As pointed out by someone previously the intercooler isn't big enough, have a look in the tech thread for my teaser pics thread  

I am sure there is other stuff I have forgotten to include which I will add.

Disclaimer - this is merely what I have worked out and done to my Bongo. It is at your discretion whether you wish to undertake any of these modifications at your own risk! 

Hope this is interesting 
Tom_B
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tom_B » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:14 pm

You are right Gefail - WL-T is supposed to produce 125bhp not 105bhp. That was the easiest power upgrade ever, no grease or expense involved.

Thanks for your ideas Tony they look interesting and if I ever take the heads off then flowing and porting them would make sense.

I think I am leaning towards an electronic boost controller as it gives better control and safety for the engine than a manual one. I'm not looking for stupid gains just a bit more drivability. I think the injectors will be fine for a couple of extra pounds of boost but a bigger intercooler will need to be fitted to cope with the extra compression.

EGR delete, or at least a good clean through will make sense on a vehicle with more than 100k under its wheels.
1996 AWD 2.5 Oil Burning, Slushbox, Stylish bullbars, AFT White & Silver.Unconverted. Aircon!

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Tom_B
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tom_B » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:26 pm

Water/Meth injection is a good idea Rapidair and would cool the induction charge perfectly when the turbo is turned up. It would fit well with the electronic boost control to give a system that would be safe for the engine and the map could be turned down for when the water/meth injection wasn't working for any reason.
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Tony x
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tony x » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:50 pm

Tom_B wrote:You are right Gefail - WL-T is supposed to produce 125bhp not 105bhp. That was the easiest power upgrade ever, s.
You can add another 5 HP if you have the newer, variable vein turbo
Tom_B
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tom_B » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:13 pm

nah - 1995 old skool goodness.
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helen&tony
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by helen&tony » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:10 am

Hi
Yes, I fitted water / meth injection, but not for tuning, it just puts back the LACK of power our Bongo has in the warm dry weather in summer, which sometimes gets into the mid-40s. Some engines may like the dry weather, ours doesn't....all engines are different and have a personality. The average Bongo has reasonable acceleration, just about keeping up with modern traffic until around 40 MPH, then the modern vehicles show the difference....Pointless tuning an old van, as they weren't designed for anything but plodding. They are pretty good for an all-purpose runabout and suit most needs. The Bongo can't be "re-mapped" as the ECU isn't very sophisticated, and doesn't control sufficient engine functions to warrant fiddling with. The best bet is just to make sure it all runs alright. I have had plans for adding "dry" nitrous oxide to run up until the water / meth cuts in, and it will switch off slightly before the water kit operates. Nitrous is also a pretty good vessel for cooling the induction charge, but you should have a bit of experience with it before considering...Plans currently shelved due to lack of suppliers nearby!...LOL
If fitting anything to the Bongo in terms of non-standard add-ons, or actually tuning in any way, you must inform your insurance company, and factor in a large amount of extra cost.
Cheers
Helen
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andyb36
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by andyb36 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:48 am

hello all

there is a new treatment called terraclean

this machine runs your engine for around an hour and cleans all the carbon deposits and other stuff

it is supposed to get your engine back to scratch

my bro in laws garage has just got this kit and he has put his own t5 through it and notices a big difference in all areas


would anyone risk putting the bongo engine through it

its supposed to clean the engine - turbo valves - everything

but what if the carbon is holding it all together lol :evil: :oops:

it costs about £110 to have the treatment


you can find out more on you tube

has anyone had this done yet ?

andy
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Bob » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:43 am

I seem to recal the advice not to use Easy Start is based on the idea that it will break down the carbon 'Seal' where the piston reaches TDC.

Not sure if there's any truth in it. :?
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tom_B » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:49 am

thanks Andy - I would imagine that cleaning the engine must at least restore it to some extent. It would be interesting to hear if people who have had this done have ever experienced the kind of problems you are describing from loosened up carbon etc.

Helen - thanks for your post - my intention was to see what the hive knowledge on making more power in Bongos is - I think the Bongo community is probably particular compared to the VW community where tuning and modding old vans is just what they do. Partly because the engines in the T1,T2 and T3 are so spectacularly underpowered that they really need some extra go. I understand that all vehicles that manufacturers release are detuned so they can be sold in international markets with different fuels and also function well within design parameters and I guess which is partly why remapping has become popular and rechipping before that.

As far as I can see the WL-T engine is reasonably solid and seems to have a reasonable reputation for sturdiness and the IHI VJ24 turbo is a quality unit used in other vehicles.

I'll keep researching and thinking about what is sensible and practical.
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by andyb36 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:13 pm

hi tom

as far as I am aware - as I havnt spoken with me bro in law yet about it

but he told my other bro in law - who works with me - a bmw rep brought one of their older cars in and said it must have given her at least 20 % more ummmppff

she was totally taken by it

she drove it there and commented on the results driving it back

as soon as I know more I will let you know

the golden question is - bongo engine - ive only got 80k miles on her - but 19 years old

and as far as I am aware - before the 8 years I have had her - and the 3 years the previous owner had from import - nothing has ever been done inside the engine

if the garage stated no problem to fix if it buggers my engine lol - ( which is highly unlikely ) I would be booking it in

I need to speak to my bro in law and find out more

cheers

andy
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by Tom_B » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:37 pm

Andy - probably a good time for an engine clean with less than 100k miles.
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BongoBongo123
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Re: Go faster - Go Better?

Post by BongoBongo123 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:20 pm

Err...allow me to introduce considering a double dose of Millers Diesel Eco Powermax into your diesel tank (as suggested on the bottle, cetane boost and progressive cleaning product). No shortage of power here but then again I am not expecting the Bongo to be a sports car. :?:

Do be aware that as you start ragging it and flying around everything will basically wear out quicker, gearbox, all moving components etc. I get an impression that the Bongo is a vehicle that will not respond well to thrifty driving, faster acceleration etc. given age, size, design.

It's a plodder, a very nice one. I cannot say I have ever experienced a lack of poke though. I think it would out accelerate my 2.0L petrol injection car. (though it is 3 speed auto)

(For £30.00 you could get 1 x BG244 diesel cleaner as a high strength cleaner (goes in your fuel tank) and then 1 bottle of Millers stick 50mL in each fresh tank of fuel (or 100ml double dose). Run the BG244 through as a once every 2-3 year thing and then add Millers at each refueling. That is what I do and I have no power issues and can do 43 MPG on a long run at 55mph.)

All at your own risk but I have had nothing but good results with this approach myself over 2 years of ownership.

Your suspension, brakes, transmission, steering, tyres... everything will just wear out quicker. I am of the mind that Bongos are best driven respectfully and cared for not worn out prematurely.

Each to their own mind you !

I have even read you can increase power for a while just after an oil change. Try all the obvious things first bring it back up as close to new spec. Filters, high quality oils for engine and transmission, correct tyre pressures.

P.S. I have no connection to these products at all my profession is in a completely unrelated industry ! I just know what has worked for me, I bet it is much cheaper than terraclean. (not sure if it is as thorough though?)

This guy needs an oil change :lol: :

https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5 ... _webp=true
Last edited by BongoBongo123 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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