Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Anything non-technical about the Mazda Bongo Friendee van

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joeldrummer79
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Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by joeldrummer79 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:01 pm

Hi guys

Am looking for some advice please.

I bought my Bongo 3 months ago through a private seller and paid 7k for the vehicle which I thought was a decent price considering all the extras it came with and how good the car looked cosmetically.

I have recently taken it to a Bongo savvy garage in Harbury to check the underside amongst other things before I have it Waxoyled, what the mechanic has told me is shocking.

He has mentioned that about 80% of the front chassis is rusted to hell and needs lots of plates welded in. There is also major rust on structural suspension points on the rear chassis that needs complete re fabrication to return it to a road worthy state.

He says that somewhere on the rear chassis (cant remember exactly what part) they have filled it with cardboard or something and covered it over with underseal to get it through an MOT. Also other rusted parts have been covered with underseal "to hell and back" to cover up the rust.

The car is structurally unsafe and in need of a lot of attention. On a good note though, it is all repairable.

Now my issue is about what rights I have in regard to resolving this matter with the seller.

I cannot afford to scrap it as I would lose a lot of money (only had it 3 months) and do not have access to a yard to break it so my only option is to have it repaired (which I feel is worth doing as rest of van is good and I do actually love it)

I believe that this amount of corrosion would have been present when I bought it and as I was told that the vehicle was "mechanically sound with no problems at all" therefore, the item was not as described, and unfit for purpose. Hence, I should be entitled by law to the seller paying the cost of repair or paying the difference between what I paid for it and what it is actually worth (which potentially is nothing due to it being in road worthy)

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed? I am not willing to sell it on in this condition due to it being completely immoral.
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teenmal
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by teenmal » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:24 pm

So sorry to hear that you have bought a Rust Bucket and paid Good Money for it.
I hope prospective buyers of these vehicles take heed'
There was an instance a wee while ago when a buyer purchased on of these vehicle for £5000 and it was worth about £175 (depending on scrap price at the time).

Your best bet is to go back to the seller and confront them with the fact that the vehicle was Doctored to such a state that it was UNFIT for the ROAD. The MOT test for these old vehicles NEEDS to be tightened up regarding chassis covering etc. Bring back the BIG SCREWDRIVER.

Take Care.
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:01 pm

teenmal wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:24 pm So sorry to hear that you have bought a Rust Bucket and paid Good Money for it.
I hope prospective buyers of these vehicles take heed'
There was an instance a wee while ago when a buyer purchased on of these vehicle for £5000 and it was worth about £175 (depending on scrap price at the time).

Your best bet is to go back to the seller and confront them with the fact that the vehicle was Doctored to such a state that it was UNFIT for the ROAD. The MOT test for these old vehicles NEEDS to be tightened up regarding chassis covering etc. Bring back the BIG SCREWDRIVER.

Take Care.
Agree with teenmal on all that and if there is any way to get redress with the dealer i would. Start nicely though in case they are as surprised as you and willing to contribute to cost of repair. But if not they should be aware that short of being libellous you will be out to stop other people from buying from 'careless' dealers. The problems you describe are interesting. Corrosion of the cross member under the radiator is common and can be cut out and a new piece welded in (mine was done a few years back and i've needed and will continue to need other welding done also). Whereabouts are you located as I'd also let a Bongo savvy garage look at that and the other corrosion, if there is one near you. They might give a more useful view on just how bad it all is. What year of manufacture is it btw and how long has it been in uk?Good luck and keep us posted.
teenmal
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by teenmal » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:10 pm

Mike,


Quote

I bought my Bongo 3 months ago through a private seller and paid 7k for the vehicle which I thought was a decent price considering all the extras it came with and how good the car looked cosmetically.

I have recently taken it to a Bongo savvy garage in Harbury to check the underside amongst other things before I have it Waxoyled, what the mechanic has told me is shocking.


take care
Katka
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by Katka » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:55 pm

Really sorry to hear the story. The answer to your question depends on what what was said to you at the time of sale regarding the condition of the vehicle, and if you can prove it. You and the seller entered a contract, so if the seller, even a private one misrepresented the sale as you have said, you will have recourse. However, you'd have to prove this, with sms, letters etc, which I suspect you didn't get - who does on a private sale? Although the MOT is a useful guide to condition, it isn't a pre-sale inspection and shouldn't be taken as one.

The best advice is get advice! A legal advice from a solicitor, usually free of charge for a 10 minute chat, or Citizens Advice will help you understand what needs to be dealt with. Before you do this though, do some preparatory work so your adviser can give best advice - check the seller really is a private seller, if they regularly sell vehicles, they are probably doing it by trade although you didn't know it, and are then not a private seller. Get a statement from your mechanic regarding condition. Take the vehicle's history if you have it.
Although you don't say when the MOT was done, It sounds like the faults might have been deliberately hidden for the sale and this is deception.

Whilst it's very worthwhile seeking redress, you'll need to be realistic, so prepare for disappointment at the same time. I'm sure forum members will be happy to point you towards good repairers so that when your Bongo is on the road, you'll then be able to have years of pleasure from it and put this lousy experience behind you.
Best of luck
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mikeonb4c
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by mikeonb4c » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:03 am

teenmal wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:10 pm Mike,


Quote

I bought my Bongo 3 months ago through a private seller and paid 7k for the vehicle which I thought was a decent price considering all the extras it came with and how good the car looked cosmetically.

I have recently taken it to a Bongo savvy garage in Harbury to check the underside amongst other things before I have it Waxoyled, what the mechanic has told me is shocking.


take care
Oh dear. Old age - its a curse. But at least i've retained my sense of humour :lol: Apologies to the OP for confusing him. And of course if its a private purchase its caveat emptor in spades i fear.
joeldrummer79
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by joeldrummer79 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:40 am

Hi and thanks for all your comments, appreciate it.

I did start very nicely, I asked to work with the private seller to come to some sort of financial resolution.
The seller (a very nice lady I thought) seemed genuinely upset by the news and she maintained she sold it in good faith and wasn't aware of any hiding of the rust. She said she certainly didn't hide anything.

She just kept going on the fact that it was sold with a 11 month MOT (issued in July) so therefore the car is deemed roadworthy. And the van was sold as seen so wouldn't be offering me any financial help.

This is where I got to the point of stating the law. I stated that due to the sale of goods act 1979 an item should be sold as described. And she described it as "Mechanically perfect, no problems at all" I have the listing for this on a document. I also have an email telling her I would take the van as long as it is what she said it is. She emailed back saying yes, "it is as described"

I do believe she is a genuine private seller whom was honest with what she said (although the service history says it was undersealed by her previous owner, Last few MOTS were at different stations etc- She seemed to know an awful lot about this subject)

I also stated that the service history, while being detailed, isn't comprehensive as the last two years (while she owned the car) the service history is pretty vague. (very little present in terms of receipts/invoices etc) and suggested that work (like undersealing) could have been done and the invoice not kept. This however would be impossible to prove.

My initial idea was to only ask for half of the repairs although CAB website says I could be entitled to the full cost. She hasn't agreed to help at all so I have told her that I will have to take the legal route.


she made a good point however, that maybe I should pursue my case with the test station as they should never have passed it but this is no help to me really as I cant see them giving me any financial help. Your thoughts perhaps?
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joeldrummer79
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by joeldrummer79 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:42 am

mikeonb4c wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:01 pm
teenmal wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:24 pm So sorry to hear that you have bought a Rust Bucket and paid Good Money for it.
I hope prospective buyers of these vehicles take heed'
There was an instance a wee while ago when a buyer purchased on of these vehicle for £5000 and it was worth about £175 (depending on scrap price at the time).

Your best bet is to go back to the seller and confront them with the fact that the vehicle was Doctored to such a state that it was UNFIT for the ROAD. The MOT test for these old vehicles NEEDS to be tightened up regarding chassis covering etc. Bring back the BIG SCREWDRIVER.

Take Care.
Agree with teenmal on all that and if there is any way to get redress with the dealer i would. Start nicely though in case they are as surprised as you and willing to contribute to cost of repair. But if not they should be aware that short of being libellous you will be out to stop other people from buying from 'careless' dealers. The problems you describe are interesting. Corrosion of the cross member under the radiator is common and can be cut out and a new piece welded in (mine was done a few years back and i've needed and will continue to need other welding done also). Whereabouts are you located as I'd also let a Bongo savvy garage look at that and the other corrosion, if there is one near you. They might give a more useful view on just how bad it all is. What year of manufacture is it btw and how long has it been in uk?Good luck and keep us posted.
Its a 95 2.5TD and has been in UK since 2005 I think (clearly not undersealed upon import)
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joeldrummer79
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by joeldrummer79 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:44 am

Katka wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:55 pm Really sorry to hear the story. The answer to your question depends on what what was said to you at the time of sale regarding the condition of the vehicle, and if you can prove it. You and the seller entered a contract, so if the seller, even a private one misrepresented the sale as you have said, you will have recourse. However, you'd have to prove this, with sms, letters etc, which I suspect you didn't get - who does on a private sale? Although the MOT is a useful guide to condition, it isn't a pre-sale inspection and shouldn't be taken as one.

The best advice is get advice! A legal advice from a solicitor, usually free of charge for a 10 minute chat, or Citizens Advice will help you understand what needs to be dealt with. Before you do this though, do some preparatory work so your adviser can give best advice - check the seller really is a private seller, if they regularly sell vehicles, they are probably doing it by trade although you didn't know it, and are then not a private seller. Get a statement from your mechanic regarding condition. Take the vehicle's history if you have it.
Although you don't say when the MOT was done, It sounds like the faults might have been deliberately hidden for the sale and this is deception.

Whilst it's very worthwhile seeking redress, you'll need to be realistic, so prepare for disappointment at the same time. I'm sure forum members will be happy to point you towards good repairers so that when your Bongo is on the road, you'll then be able to have years of pleasure from it and put this lousy experience behind you.
Best of luck
Ive looked at a few sites and don't think I need to prove it, I think it is the sellers responsibility to prove that all this rust wasn't there at time of sale. Impossible really considering how much rust there is (although MOT could be her saving grace???)
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mikeonb4c
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by mikeonb4c » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:00 pm

Mine's a 95 model, properly dinitroled when still in good condition but still needing welding as the years pass. So this is to be expected BUT the owners claims amount to misrepresentation in my view and the price is indeed high given the obvious poor condition. What was their reason for selling, out of interest?
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by teenmal » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:40 pm

Unfortunately the Private seller does not need to prove anything its up to the buyers to Test And Try before They Buy .Most private sellers don't know their A#se from their Elbow when it comes to the welfare of motor vehicles. This does not help you in anyway,alas there are professional people out there that could inspect any vehicle for a few quid and save the buyer a few THOUSAND .

You do not attempt to buy these OLD vehicles without professional Advice, they are proving to be a MONEY PIT.

Take Care.
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mikeonb4c
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by mikeonb4c » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:25 am

teenmal wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:40 pm Unfortunately the Private seller does not need to prove anything its up to the buyers to Test And Try before They Buy .Most private sellers don't know their A#se from their Elbow when it comes to the welfare of motor vehicles. This does not help you in anyway,alas there are professional people out there that could inspect any vehicle for a few quid and save the buyer a few THOUSAND .

You do not attempt to buy these OLD vehicles without professional Advice, they are proving to be a MONEY PIT.

Take Care.
Then again this other thread is a reminder that ALL cars can be MONEY PITS:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74167&start=15

It helps to keep a sense of proportion about these things :roll:
teenmal
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by teenmal » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:16 pm

mikeonb4c wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:25 am
teenmal wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:40 pm Unfortunately the Private seller does not need to prove anything its up to the buyers to Test And Try before They Buy .Most private sellers don't know their A#se from their Elbow when it comes to the welfare of motor vehicles. This does not help you in anyway,alas there are professional people out there that could inspect any vehicle for a few quid and save the buyer a few THOUSAND .

You do not attempt to buy these OLD vehicles without professional Advice, they are proving to be a MONEY PIT.

Take Care.
Then again this other thread is a reminder that ALL cars can be MONEY PITS:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74167&start=15

It helps to keep a sense of proportion about these things :roll:


Sorry I think you are missing the Point , this person paid £7000,00 for what is potentially a Bucket Of RUST .

Personally I think they have been STUNG.

You take care.
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mikeonb4c
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by mikeonb4c » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm sorry if you think i'm missing the point Teenmal, but I didn't want to labour an obvious one. I thought it might help the OP to post an illustration of the uncertainty of owning any vehicle, as they have probably already worked out the vehicle they bought was not as described.
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Re: Looking for advice on Major structural corrosion

Post by joeldrummer79 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:48 am

mikeonb4c wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:00 pm Mine's a 95 model, properly dinitroled when still in good condition but still needing welding as the years pass. So this is to be expected BUT the owners claims amount to misrepresentation in my view and the price is indeed high given the obvious poor condition. What was their reason for selling, out of interest?
Their reason for selling was apparently due to wanting to start a family and the money would come in handy for that.
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