Solar panels......
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- Bongonaut
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:14 pm
- Location: Wiltshire
Solar panels......
Can anyone advise on solar panels & what the differences are please.
I've seen 100w panels on eBay, normal & flexible thin types for ~£100 and also seen eg Solar Camper Solutions panels at £329.
What is the difference & why such an enormous price difference? I don't want to cut corners nor invest in an inferior panel, just would like to justify the cost to myself!
All advices appreciated
I've seen 100w panels on eBay, normal & flexible thin types for ~£100 and also seen eg Solar Camper Solutions panels at £329.
What is the difference & why such an enormous price difference? I don't want to cut corners nor invest in an inferior panel, just would like to justify the cost to myself!
All advices appreciated
- g8dhe
- Supreme Being
- Posts: 10220
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
- Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
- Contact:
Re: Solar panels......
Panels -
Right, China is making zillions of cells, they can't use them all so the worst ones are being dumped on the market to make cheap Solar Panels. The quality of these cells are poor, all the "A" grade cells are used by the manufacturer themselves, the "B" grade cells are then sold off to make panels of highly variable quality. To try and make it sound better, they have also introduced a panel quality rating, this is based on the visual appearance of the "B" grade cells when mounted into the panels, very little technical specification other than the most basic is provided so your basically relying on the marketing words of the salesman to go by - good luck!
Controllers -
There are two types the older style using Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) which are over stocked and sitting on shelves not being sold.
Then there are the Maximum Power Point Transfer type which are a lot more efficient, they cost more than the PWM.
Hence there is a race to sell the old PWM type to get them off the shelves, and again a lot of marketing words are used! Several types have suddenly been relabelled MPT or MPTT on EBAY and the like to try and confuse.
Mountings -
Unless designed for the job you run a serious risk of loosing a panel and causing a serious accident - two such reports from people on FaceBook see pictures I've saved here http://www.g8dhe.net/bongo_images/Solar ... ot_to_fix/ the panels need BOLTING to the roof and the mounts need BOLTING to the panels, always use Nylock nuts to prevent vibration problems. Glueing as used in one of the pictures above can work BUT you need to use the right stuff and use it correctly on a CLEAN surface, otherwise another flying panel!
Despite similar warnings I have given on FB, people still go off and buy the cheap ones - first they find they don't fit the size of the roof - odd sized panels - the mountings use self tappers and the controllers aren't as "implied" and are actually PWM.
Yes they work sort of, but not efficiently in the UK sunlight and as reported two people have reported loosing panels, I wonder how many just stay stum on the matter!!!!
Go to a seller who relies on reputation to make sales, has done the work to make them fit Bongo's and will fit them for you if you don't have the skills. Despite having the skills I used http://www.solarcampersolutions.co.uk/ to get all the parts in one hit, to know that it would work first time and if anything was of dubious quality I could return it easily! There are other suppliers as well of course.
If you have FB then read these reports;
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 961025733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 325080733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 756680733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7571714 ... 465934957/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 670950733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 183785733/
Right, China is making zillions of cells, they can't use them all so the worst ones are being dumped on the market to make cheap Solar Panels. The quality of these cells are poor, all the "A" grade cells are used by the manufacturer themselves, the "B" grade cells are then sold off to make panels of highly variable quality. To try and make it sound better, they have also introduced a panel quality rating, this is based on the visual appearance of the "B" grade cells when mounted into the panels, very little technical specification other than the most basic is provided so your basically relying on the marketing words of the salesman to go by - good luck!
Controllers -
There are two types the older style using Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) which are over stocked and sitting on shelves not being sold.
Then there are the Maximum Power Point Transfer type which are a lot more efficient, they cost more than the PWM.
Hence there is a race to sell the old PWM type to get them off the shelves, and again a lot of marketing words are used! Several types have suddenly been relabelled MPT or MPTT on EBAY and the like to try and confuse.
Mountings -
Unless designed for the job you run a serious risk of loosing a panel and causing a serious accident - two such reports from people on FaceBook see pictures I've saved here http://www.g8dhe.net/bongo_images/Solar ... ot_to_fix/ the panels need BOLTING to the roof and the mounts need BOLTING to the panels, always use Nylock nuts to prevent vibration problems. Glueing as used in one of the pictures above can work BUT you need to use the right stuff and use it correctly on a CLEAN surface, otherwise another flying panel!
Despite similar warnings I have given on FB, people still go off and buy the cheap ones - first they find they don't fit the size of the roof - odd sized panels - the mountings use self tappers and the controllers aren't as "implied" and are actually PWM.
Yes they work sort of, but not efficiently in the UK sunlight and as reported two people have reported loosing panels, I wonder how many just stay stum on the matter!!!!
Go to a seller who relies on reputation to make sales, has done the work to make them fit Bongo's and will fit them for you if you don't have the skills. Despite having the skills I used http://www.solarcampersolutions.co.uk/ to get all the parts in one hit, to know that it would work first time and if anything was of dubious quality I could return it easily! There are other suppliers as well of course.
If you have FB then read these reports;
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 961025733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 325080733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 756680733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7571714 ... 465934957/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 670950733/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2529055 ... 183785733/
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- Bongonaut
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:14 pm
- Location: Wiltshire
Re: Solar panels......
THANKYOU!
I have already spoken to Roger and fully intend on using him for supply & fit of my solar panel - this is all the justification I need
Would you object to me copying & pasting your above post to Facebook to answer the people that said I had been 'over' quoted?
I have already spoken to Roger and fully intend on using him for supply & fit of my solar panel - this is all the justification I need
Would you object to me copying & pasting your above post to Facebook to answer the people that said I had been 'over' quoted?
- mikeonb4c
- Supreme Being
- Posts: 22875
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 pm
- Location: Living with Mango Bongo in the North West but with a tendency to roam
- Contact:
Re: Solar panels......
Yep, with some products you're paying the extra for assurance. I think that with people like Dodgey and Haydn Alarms you're dealing with people who apply the same standards when fitting stuff to your car as they do when fitting stuff to their own car.
- g8dhe
- Supreme Being
- Posts: 10220
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
- Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
- Contact:
Re: Solar panels......
Your welcome, but see my response halfway down on the last FB link, others know better and get good results - yes some lucky ones might! - at least John Mono had the guts to come back up and admit that the package he bought was C**p and he is now buying differently!BetsyBongo wrote:THANKYOU!
Would you object to me copying & pasting your above post to Facebook to answer the people that said I had been 'over' quoted?
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- Bongonaut
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:14 pm
- Location: Wiltshire
Re: Solar panels......
I couldn't agree more, when purchasing my Haydn TM1 I had the pleasure of talking to a real, helpful, knowledgeable person & having talked to Dodgey/Roger and researching I'm confident he's the man for me to supply & fit solar to my beloved BetsyBongomikeonb4c wrote:Yep, with some products you're paying the extra for assurance. I think that with people like Dodgey and Haydn Alarms you're dealing with people who apply the same standards when fitting stuff to your car as they do when fitting stuff to their own car.
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- Bongonaut
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:14 pm
- Location: Wiltshire
Re: Solar panels......
Yes I saw John Mono's Facebook problems as I use Facebook more than Bongo Fury as I'm more familiar with it & find it easier to use.g8dhe wrote:Your welcome, but see my response halfway down on the last FB link, others know better and get good results - yes some lucky ones might! - at least John Mono had the guts to come back up and admit that the package he bought was C**p and he is now buying differently!BetsyBongo wrote:THANKYOU!
Would you object to me copying & pasting your above post to Facebook to answer the people that said I had been 'over' quoted?
Thankyou again for your reply, cemented in my mind what I already knew
- g8dhe
- Supreme Being
- Posts: 10220
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
- Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
- Contact:
Re: Solar panels......
Oh and now it seems a lot of panels are appearing on the market without bypass diodes on each cell
What does this mean, basically if one cell is shadowed the entire panel shuts down as the current is unable to pass thru it from all the other cells.
In sensibly constructed panels there are several chains of cells each chain in series, with bypass diodes around each cell, and then several such chains in parallel to increase the overall current and hence power.
Now it seems to cut costs, these are being missed out, there is no visible outward sign that you can see hence you will only find out once the panel is mounted and then the output falls when a leaf or shadow crosses the panel.....
What does this mean, basically if one cell is shadowed the entire panel shuts down as the current is unable to pass thru it from all the other cells.
In sensibly constructed panels there are several chains of cells each chain in series, with bypass diodes around each cell, and then several such chains in parallel to increase the overall current and hence power.
Now it seems to cut costs, these are being missed out, there is no visible outward sign that you can see hence you will only find out once the panel is mounted and then the output falls when a leaf or shadow crosses the panel.....
Re: Solar panels......
Thread hijack....!
I fitted an 80w panel a couple of years ago. I'm using a non MPTT, it's a dual controller that charges both the main an LB. is it worth swapping out for a MPTT controller? The ones I've seen seen to be charging one battery only. My set up has been good but was struggling to keep my very small waeco compressor fridge going at Glasto.
I fitted an 80w panel a couple of years ago. I'm using a non MPTT, it's a dual controller that charges both the main an LB. is it worth swapping out for a MPTT controller? The ones I've seen seen to be charging one battery only. My set up has been good but was struggling to keep my very small waeco compressor fridge going at Glasto.
- g8dhe
- Supreme Being
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- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
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Re: Solar panels......
I would say the extra efficiency of the MPPT controller is well worth it. Also consider that the SB shouldn't need charging as its always charged by the alternator and then not used for the period of camping. The exception is if you lay the vehicle up for long periods of time and then the SB might need a charge every month or two to keep it topped up.
Re: Solar panels......
Thanks. I might look to see whether a dual charging version is available as my Bongo is left for long periods unused. I guess alternative is to fit a diverting switch.
- g8dhe
- Supreme Being
- Posts: 10220
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
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Re: Solar panels......
Quite a few of the control systems have a switch for selecting the battery "Car/Off/Van" or similar, then if the solar is wired to the switch you can control as needed, which is what I do.
Re: Solar panels......
If you don't mind me hijacking I'm in the market for a free standing panel for the LB on our caravan.
We're not heavy users but need to run the water pumps and a light in the evening when no ehu to be had.
As with newer cars there's a static load for the thing's electronic stuff.
Any advice welcome, thanks.
We're not heavy users but need to run the water pumps and a light in the evening when no ehu to be had.
As with newer cars there's a static load for the thing's electronic stuff.
Any advice welcome, thanks.
- g8dhe
- Supreme Being
- Posts: 10220
- Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:06 pm
- Location: Worthing, West Sussex.
- Contact:
Re: Solar panels......
I would stick with a minimum of a 100 Watt panel (mainly for the fridge requirement) and an MPPT controller (handles lower light levels better), as I would guess that you will want to keep the battery topped up when not in use which could be for much longer periods than a van and during winter the light levels can be a lot less than it first seems.
Re: Solar panels......
Thanks Geoff
A real help as always.
We can run the fridge on gas when we have no ehu, and I bring the LB home when the caravan is stored so winter isn't really a problem.
The fridge does, however, need the battery connected as the contols are electronic.
100w was roughly where I was thinking so really appreciate that.
A real help as always.
We can run the fridge on gas when we have no ehu, and I bring the LB home when the caravan is stored so winter isn't really a problem.
The fridge does, however, need the battery connected as the contols are electronic.
100w was roughly where I was thinking so really appreciate that.