Page 1 of 3

London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:59 am
by Ian
Transport for London (TfL) have announced that the LEZ for large vans, mini buses and motorhomes will be introduced on 3 January 2012. Cars are exempt from the charge, and so are motorhomes under 2.5 tonnes. Despite what you may have heard elsewhere all Mazda Bongos and Ford Fredas are exempt from the charge. However you may need to take some corrective action (see below).

All Bongos/Fredas are classified as "Tax Class = Private/Light Goods", but some are also classified as "Body Type = Motor Caravan".

If your Body Type is classified as a Motor Caravan, then you will be deemed to be over 2.5 tonnes (and therefore non-compliant) unless the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is also shown on the V5 (section 4). If the GVW is not indicated then you must either:

a) get the GVW inserted on the V5 via DVLA; or
b) write to TfL with documentary evidence of the weight of the vehicle.

Acceptable documentary evidence includes the Japanese de-registration documents, Public Weighbridge evidence, or (depending on who you talk to) a covering letter with photos of vehicle.

Note that the GVW is the weight of the vehicle with a full tank of fuel and a full load of passengers and cargo. Our figures indicate that for the heaviest Bongo with a full campervan conversion the GVW is 2360 kgs. I will be writing to TfL with this information shortly.

See here to check your vehicle: https://lowemissionzone.tfl.gov.uk/b/pb ... ferrer=lez

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:44 am
by Ron Miel
Applies to diesel Bongos only. All petrol and/or LPG fuelled Bongos remain LEZ compliant, even after the rule changes in 2012. Click "Check by vehicle type" here to confirm: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/177 ... ab-panel-3

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:53 am
by Ron Miel
Ian wrote:.......Our figures indicate that for the heaviest Bongo with a full campervan conversion the GVW is 2360 kgs. I will be writing to TfL with this information shortly....
2360....or 2260?

http://www.imperialcar.co.uk/bongo_facts

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:33 am
by Ian
Ron Miel wrote:
Ian wrote:.......Our figures indicate that for the heaviest Bongo with a full campervan conversion the GVW is 2360 kgs. I will be writing to TfL with this information shortly....
2360....or 2260?

http://www.imperialcar.co.uk/bongo_facts
I've seen both figures used, so have taken the heaviest of the 2.

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:48 pm
by Ron Miel
OK understood but we do know the source of 2,260 kg - Mazda, according to Imperial.

Anyone know the source of 2,360 kg? If we could nail this, once and for all, it should see us alright with VOSA, DVLA, police and insurers, as well as TFL/LEZ. Wouldn't matter which figure but it would be really useful to have a generally accepted UK Bongo GVW, IMHO.

Don't forget that Private/Light Goods means less than 3.5 tonnes by definition anyway (i.e., Bongos are VOSA-certified as being less than 3.5 tonnes), when writing to TFL, Ian.

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:05 pm
by gasace
Ron Miel wrote:OK understood but we do know the source of 2,260 kg - Mazda, according to Imperial.

Anyone know the source of 2,360 kg? If we could nail this, once and for all, it should see us alright with VOSA, DVLA, police and insurers, as well as TFL/LEZ. Wouldn't matter which figure but it would be really useful to have a generally accepted UK Bongo GVW, IMHO.

Don't forget that Private/Light Goods means less than 3.5 tonnes by definition anyway (i.e., Bongos are VOSA-certified as being less than 3.5 tonnes), when writing to TFL, Ian.

The weight for LEZ next year is under 2.5 tonnes to be exempt so 2,360 kg. will do nicely :D

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:18 pm
by Ron Miel
Sorry - so it is, for motorcaravans registered new before 1/1/02. Hadn't spotted the reduction from 3.5 to 2.5, and thought we were just talking about removal of the previous LEZ exemption of all motorcaravans. Assume this had been explained in the previous long topic on the subject but confess that, having been off the forum for the past six months, had not gone back and read it right through - so apologies, especially to Ian. Banging on about anything P/LG being VOSA classified already as sub-3.5 tonnes was not relevant then.

Yes, 2,360 kg, or 2,260 kg, will do nicely. 2,260 probably has the advantage of being Mazda's design spec. 2,360 would give us more leeway though - if we have to fix any figure at all, that is. Hopefully, Ian can just get TFL acceptance of "not exceeding 2.5 tonnes" - leaving us all to continue going our own sweet way in terms of actual GVW for our vans. My own sweet way will still be to work to 2,260 kg max, in the interest of fuel consumption, and for the ability to claim compliance with Imperial's spec for insurance purposes. I've even put it on a weighbridge on three separate occasions, as kit has been added/subtracted 8)

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:36 am
by TPTP
Just perusing my V5.

There is a space for Revenue weight (box [y]), Max. permissible mass (box F.1) and Mass in service (box G).

Which box do I need to persuade the nice people at DVLA to put a number in?

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:10 pm
by Ron Miel
If you sit tight TPTP, Ian might be doing the job for you http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... 77#p519377 - saving you hassle and a fee, in the process.

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:42 pm
by Ian
Here's a copy of the letter I have sent to the LEZ people in Worthing:

"I am writing to you as Secretary of the Mazda Bongo/Ford Freda Owners Club. Many of our members who live in the Greater London area have recently received letters from TfL to say that their vehicles are non-compliant for LEZ from January 2012.

I have searched through the TfL website about the eligibility criteria and it would appear that ALL Mazda Bongos and Ford Fredas should be exempt from the charge. I am hoping that rather than treat each Mazda Bongo/Ford Freda as separate cases, it might be possible to amend your database for all Mazda Bongos or Ford Fredas?

Here is some background information.

Mazda Bongos and Ford Fredas were manufactured in Japan from 1995 to 2005. They are brought in to the UK as “grey imports”. They are available as both diesel and petrol models. Obviously only the diesel versions are subject to LEZ criteria.

When they are imported, Mazda Bongos & Ford Fredas come in to the UK as 7 or 8 seater vehicles. The maximum weight of the vehicle is 1860 kgs. These vehicles are all classified as “Private/Light Goods Vehicles” on the DVLA database and are therefore not required to pay the LEZ fee.

However, a number of Bongos have been converted in to Campervans and they are classified on the DVLA database as “Vehicle Type- Motor Caravan”. It would appear that it is these vehicles that are causing concern as they are deemed to be non-compliant for LEZ. In fact all Bongos/Fredas weigh under 2500 kgs, even with a full campervan conversion, and the largest Gross Vehicle Weight is 2360 kgs. But because the GVW does not always appear on the driver’s V5, these vehicles are being deemed to be liable for the charge. The owners of the affected vehicles then have to supply documentary evidence to yourselves proving their weight.

Is it possible that your database can be somehow “flagged” to show that all Bongos and Fredas, whether registered as cars or motor caravans, are compliant and therefore not eligible for a LEZ charge?"

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:52 pm
by Ron Miel
Good one Ian =D>

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:06 pm
by gasace
Common sense would suggest this will do the trick, :D but (there is always a but isn't there) civil servants don't do common sense do they? :wink: Fingers crossed for a good result

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:56 pm
by RPC
Excellent, and let's hope for a helpful reply. FWIW it's not only people in London who have received this LEZ letter: I got it in Bristol.

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:50 am
by widdowson2008
RPC wrote:Excellent, and let's hope for a helpful reply. FWIW it's not only people in London who have received this LEZ letter: I got it in Bristol.
I got one of those letters too, even though I live on the Derbyshire/Yorkshire border.
I do go to my sons house quite regularly (Kingston), so does that suggest that they are using their infernal 'spy' cameras and recording number plates? Certainly looks like it. :shock:

Re: London Low Emissions Zone

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:40 pm
by RPC
Very likely; I drove to Blackheath / Charlton not long ago. But I'd rather be on their radar now, and get a warning letter about the LEZ, than stray into London again in a few months' time, and get a summons for £100 ...