Smoky start in cold weather. What next?

[Bongolia]

I think you may have solved it!
Have a search through on here I read something about repairing that spigot I think NB would be best to advise you on that
This may help with the layout.
https://goo.gl/photos/ZueyqtBJzhmPRREp7
Good luck keep us posted on the outcome.

[Bongolia]

Yes, a battery load test wouldn't hurt any.
But I would sort the pipe work first.

[sotal]

Thanks for the replies. On that picture it is the blue pipe top left which is broken. It is broken where it connects to the black bit on the pipe. If it is related that pipe underneath the black bit that joins to the air inlet pipe is really oily.

Is the black bit just a check valve?

http://lushprojects.com/bongopartsmk2/c ... f02.html#4

Is it 13-995 on the above diagram?

I couldn't pull it off but didn't want to break it if it wasn't so I wasn't pulling too hard!


Anyway with it like that and that pipe missing altogether, I tried starting by putting the glow plugs on until the relay clicked, then again until it clicked, then put them on again until the light went off and it started straight up with no smoke. It's hard to read the revs on the bongo rev counter as the divisions between 0 and 1 don't match the divisions between the other numbers. However it started with them higher maybe 900rpm? I waited a short while and heard one of the solenoids click and the revs dropped a bit. Switched off engine. SB voltage now with engine not running was 12.72v.

Battery is what came on the Bongo 2 years ago, it had a replacement battery at the point of sale as the one in it was no good but I don't know if it was new or just off another one.

Run out of time to play with it now for a couple of days but I will be reading the forum when I can!

Thanks for the help!


Edit - Just thought - as a battery test - I could start up the other car next to it and attach some big heavy duty jump leads. Then leave the other car running for a bit to make sure the bongo battery is fully charged, then see if it starts straight up?

Also, it has a built in battery charger for the LB, if I connect to mains on the drive would that only charge the LB or would it charge the SB too?

[Bongolia]

Not sure on your last point I think it would depend on how it was wired up.
A load test is basically a dead short through a large resistor in my opinion that is the best rather than the algorithm type of tester I suppose best would be both methods. It wouldn't hurt to get it done though.

Yes, its a one way valve. A bit of hot water from a kettle played over the pipe will help release it.

Bit confused here , are you saying that with the pipes split and disconnected i.e. like you found it that the vehicle now starts without issues by doing the double burn?
In the first instance when you discovered the issue of smoke, were you starting on the light extinguishing or the click from the solenoid?
If the former just try it from cold on the first click ignore the light.
The light may be confusing the issue.

[mikeonb4c]

Yes definitely need to be certain starter motor not being engaged in any situation where glow plugs are not up to full glow. I suspect it only takes a moment of injected diesel onto cold plugs to set off a misfire that(personally) i found cleared best with V gently raising of tickover (rather as cold solenoid does) rather than gunning the throttle. There is definitely an art to bringing an old Bongo diesel to smokeless life. I let mine tickover for a minute or so also before moving off. When it had the dodgy plug, even the load of using the power steering onto full lock straight after start up could set off a misfire. To borrow the line from Top Gun:

That engine will fire when it's goddam well ready (and not before)

[sotal]

I'm sure I've tried turning the glow plugs in twice when starting before with no difference.

The only thing for this morning was that it was around 8 degrees. There seems to be a temperature where it starts. Maybe below 5 degrees is when it smokes ( guessing as the bongo doesn't tell me what temperature it is!) So need to do some testing. However the lack of pipe didn't seem to have any negative effect!

[Northern Bongolow]

Tested the solenoids and both click audibly.



Checked all the pipes and found one with a split at the top, when I came to remove it I realised that the other end wasn't connected to anything! Not sure if it will be related as it goes to the EGR solenoids but it looks like both sets are inter connected.

The pipe that has broken connects to the air intake pipe, it has sheered off just above the fat connector bit. It then connects to the front pipe on the EGR solenoids - it had heat shielding round it too.

Not 100% sure it was sheered off before maybe moving things around has sheered it off?

Either way is that the main feed for all 4 solenoids? How do I go about repairing it! It looks like the green connector has snapped inside. I could possibly use a screw to pull out the green from the pipe and trim the split end if there is enough pipe left but not sure about the end attached to the air intake pipe.

this link shows a good way to repair the stub on the large air pipe.

http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... ub#p508153.

its not the main feed to the solenoids its the vac dump pipe that turns off the cold start solenoids if the bongo is driven or revved up while still cold, the neg pressure in the large air pipe sucks the green one way valve open, this causes the vac to be lost at the solenoids so although still switched on via the ecu and temp they go useless because there is no vac to pull up the diaphragm on the injector pump.

the solenoids are polarity conscious so need to be wired the correct way to test but your past that now,

the one way valve are on most modern cars, just your local car bits place will have em or.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl= ... mrc&uact=8.

or if you want the correct one.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl= ... mrc&uact=8

[sotal]

It isn't the stub on the air pipe that has sheared it was the one way check valve. And the pipe above it has a split down at the top.

I copied the polarity for the solenoid from the wiring, so that was ok.

Slightly confused about what you were saying with regards to the vac dump. Should it work correctly without that pipe in place or is it not functioning correctly? Also what symptoms would it give?

Thanks

[Northern Bongolow]

on tick over if the one way valve is broken or the pipe to/from it, the system wont hold the ness vac that operates via the cold start solenoids, this will stop the diaphragm on the side of the fuel pump pulling up the throttle which is acting like a cold start choke during warm up.
follow the pipes down from the 2 cold start solenoids down the back of the glow plug rail to the fuel pump diaphragm chamber, one pipe goes in the end of it the other in the side of the chamber.

[sotal]

Right,

Managed to get some vacuum pipe and a one way valve (valve is much smaller than the original so hopefully it works correctly - crude sucking and blowing test seemed to show that it operated in the same manner!).

All fitted and started the engine - did one glow plug lighting but waited for the relay to click - started with a little bit of smoke and a slight 'cough' - this cleared by itself after 10 seconds or so. Then a bit later the revs dropped by themselves again. Again though the temperature outside wasn't cold enough for it to be really bad.

I'll leave it like this for a while and continue to test various things like heating the plugs twice etc. Takes quite a long time to test as I can only really test once a day!

[sotal]

Well I've had a week or so of testing the bongo. None of the starts have been particularly cold so not the best testing time.

If I started with 2 heats of the glow plugs plus waited until the relay clicks each time. Then it starts fine with minimal smoke and smooth running.

If I started with 1 heat of the glow plugs plus waited for the relay to click then it starts straight up but doesn't have a smooth idle and gives out a bit of smoke. A slight increase in revs smooths the idle out and the smoke stops.

If I start straight after the light goes out, then it is as above but slightly worse and takes longer at increased revs to settle the idle.

[Bongolia]

Are they OE spec glow plugs?
Try turning engine over a couple of times straight off not waiting for the click. Then off and on wait for the click once how does it start then?

[sotal]

Are they OE spec glow plugs?
Try turning engine over a couple of times straight off not waiting for the click. Then off and on wait for the click once how does it start then?

No idea - if they are OE spec glow plugs, I took a picture of them when they were out. Not sure if you will be able to tell from that but I'll upload it in a minute.


For the test did you mean, literally jump in and turn over the engine without waiting? Then if it starts, turn it straight off then back on again wait for the click and then start?

Photo of glow plugs...

[Bongolia]

Yes, just crank it a couple of times then ignition off then ignition on and wait for the timer to click then start it.
Is there a number on the plugs?

[sotal]

Not related to your last suggestion to try (as I need to wait until it is cold first thing in the morning)

But I recorded this video this morning.

The temperature outside was a bit warm so it didn't smoke much at all. I started straight after the light went out.

1 second - I turned the key
8 seconds the light had gone out
10 seconds the engine had started
16 seconds the idle has settled (at the higher speed)
1:28 the idle speed drops.
1:50 I rev the engine to 2000rpm

The engine noise on the video sounds worse than in real life. However when the idle speed drops things start to rattle more in the bongo.

https://youtu.be/hophQMS2Ry8