Tips for canoeists and kayakers

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abernethybongo
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Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by abernethybongo » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:21 pm

Hi folks,
After asking lots of questions and getting lots of useful advice from forum members, I've got some ideas to share on roofbars which might be useful to any paddling bongo owners out there.

I discovered that the old Paddy Hopkirk roofbars I had for my previous car fit well into the threaded holes in the AFT, with only a minor modification to drill out the existing holes in the roofbar feet to allow the M8 bolts to fit. These bars are more or less the same as older Thule/Mount Blanc types or cheaper Halfords ones, so it's worth having a look if you have any of these lying around (I seem to collect old roofbars from previous cars)!

However with the roof being so high on the bongo, we weren't sure how we were going to be able to lift our heavy canoe onto the roof. Karitek do a great system, but it isn't cheap. I thought a roller at the back would be a simple solution, but without fixing points for a bar at the back of the AFT that looked tricky - this system seemed like a good idea but none of the ones available were quite the right width for my bars or a canoe, and didn't extend far enough back. However it gave me an idea for a way to make my own.

My roofbars came with a roofrack to carry luggage, which we'd never used. You can pick these up cheaply on ebay if you don't have one to go with your bars, 102U is the produce code for one to match the 114cm wide roofbars. Firstly I dismantled it, and discovered that at some point we had lost the special bolts which connect the rack to the bars. No matter, a few cheap L-shaped brackets from B&Q did the job instead; I drilled out the holes in the brackets to accommodate the bolts (M6 I think) which attach the bars to the roofbar feet, and because the feet are right out to the edge of the 114cm bars on the Bongo, you can sit the bracket underneath the threaded plate inside the roofbar, with the bolt gong through the whole assembly, and once you tighten it all down you've got a bracket sticking out of each end of the roofbar to attach the side parts of the roofrack to.
Image
It's about 63cm from the back of the AFT to the rear roofbar mounting bolt, so to get the roller at the very back of the AFT, attach the new brackets you've fitted into the holes in the side plates of the roofrack that are a quarter of the way along their length. I found it easiest to reverse them so the writing faces in the way and the metal lip out the way, and also upside down - you'll see why later. The roofrack comes with three crossbars; I mounted two at the front (this helps give the whole thing a bit of rigidity, and protects the sunroof slightly to avoid a boat getting dropped on it). The third one goes at the very back, in the lower of the two holes, and to make this into a roller I slid this inside a bit of PVC piping (30mm would be ideal, 32mm was the closest I could find). Before fitting it, get another two small brackets, and two of the rubber doorstops you screw into floors to stop doors hitting walls; drill the bracket to accommodate the M6 bolts, then attach the bracket inside the lower mounting point for the rear crossbar. Another few bolts will attach the doorstops into the horizontal parts of the bracket - if you have them facing out the way the doorstops should sit nicely in the AFT gutter.
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That should be it! When lifting on a canoe or kayak, leave the rear end on the ground to the rear of the bongo, and lift the front onto the roller bar. Then you can pick up the rear end and roll it forward onto the roofbars. The side parts of the roofrack stick up at the rear meaning the canoe can't slide off either side as you roll it on or off. The weight of the boat sits on the roller and doorstops while you use it, but because it is lower down than the roofbars, there is no weight on it once the boat is on the roofbars, so you won't damage it or the roof when tightening the straps down, even with a canoe like mine where the gunnels are higher at each end than in the middle. It's a doddle to load and unload it this way, even with one person, and I'd imagine this system would work on other vans or estate cars too. Hope this all makes sense, the pictures probably show it better than my words!

Happy paddling,
Jamie
1997 white and silver unconverted 4WD WL-T AFT
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by philpdr » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:04 pm

Nicely done. =D>
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Diplomat
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by Diplomat » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:47 pm

An idea I got from a canoeing forum is to make an extension tube fixed to the front bar which can be pulled out about 2ft sideways beyond the line of the van.

Lift the forward end of the boat onto that. Then lift the back over onto t he rear bar, ease the front further across to straighten it up then remove the extension before driving away.

Having tied the boat down, of course!

I have a fairly long sea kayak (cockpit type not S.O.T.) luckily mainly carbon kevlar, so very light, but at the end of a day's paddling I don't have a lot of energy left for lifting it up in one go. Doing it in stages without rubbing the van paintwork is the way to go.

Basically, the modification consists of a strong tube jubilee clipped parallel to the roof bar and another slide fit removable tube inside it as the temporary extension. I'm on the lookout for some strong bar which can be temporarily slid inside the Thule bar (with the end cap removed, of course).


Frank
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They flew, I took up naturism
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by Simon Jones » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:15 am

I've used the Karitek rack (with a few modifications to spread the weight to the gutters) and it works very well. Your solution is well suited to a longer boat.

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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by stuc » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:28 pm

I have kayaks too but the problem I have is not lifting them on but tying them down as I can't reach the middle over the top or underneath to fasten the straps up. How does anyone else do it. My kayak is short enough so I can just put it inside but when the family is with me I need the seats.
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by abernethybongo » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:43 pm

That sounds like a good, simple system for a sea kayak Diplomat - I think my canoe would be too heavy but it would work well for lighter sea boats.

Stuc, I suspect I'll find that a bit of an issue too - maybe you could make some sort of bubblewrap cover for the buckle so you can loop it under the bar at one side, then throw it over the boat to the other side without risking windows or paintwork? If your boat it short enough sometime you can flick the straps over at each end whilst holding the buckle to avoid having to do that.

The Karitek setup looks good Simon - as you say, it probably works better for short boats than my roller would (a short boat would be at more risk of falling off the rear roofbar onto the sunrooof when you're taking it on or off).

Cheers,
Jamie
1997 white and silver unconverted 4WD WL-T AFT
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by Diplomat » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:52 pm

I have just bought a solution to the 'tying it down' problem.

Aldi are currently selling a nice folding aluminium step up decorating/DIY platform which when set up stands about 20" off the ground.

With a nice cushion, it should also double as a romantic porch seat for two to sit side by side watching the sunset!

My secret for tying down is to use a long rope which can be thrown right over the boat(s) and still leave enough to throw through back under the bars and loop over the hulls and under the bars several times. I start with one end tied on the nearside of the front roof bar and end up tying off tight at the rear nearside, with several extra passes over the hulls. My rope is Terylene (doesn't stretch) about 20 metres long used doubled up with the two loose ends eventually tying off at the rear. I have never got on with straps and their ratchet clips. That rope goes everywhere with me, including afloat.


Frank
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They flew, I took up naturism
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by diamond » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:15 pm

:shock: My tip is DON'T GO ON THE RIVER WHEN I'M FISHING! :evil:
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by Diplomat » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:52 pm

diamond wrote: My tip is DON'T GO ON THE RIVER WHEN I'M FISHING! :evil:
You should see what I catch on a simple 20 foot hand line trolled behind the canoe. No rod, no reel, no bait, just a big plastic eel. Total cost of tackle, less than a fiver.

Bass Bass Bass

I've paid for the kayak twice over at fish market prices.


Paddling doesn't frighten them away, I don't even have to buy a licence and I can take them home and eat some of them and freeze the rest!

Give it a try. Beats sitting on the river bank or canal side catching inedible species and throwing them back!


Frank
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They flew, I took up naturism
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by DILLIGAF » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:38 pm

However you do it(rack) be careful, i saw a bongo with kayak carrier on at the beach not long ago, and the rack had ripped his roof open. looked like an expensive repair job needed, or a big bucket to catch the water inside when it rained.
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abernethybongo
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by abernethybongo » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:05 pm

diamond wrote::shock: My tip is DON'T GO ON THE RIVER WHEN I'M FISHING! :evil:

Now now, plenty of room for the both of us :-)
DILLIGAF wrote:However you do it(rack) be careful, i saw a bongo with kayak carrier on at the beach not long ago, and the rack had ripped his roof open. looked like an expensive repair job needed, or a big bucket to catch the water inside when it rained.
Eek, that doesn't sound so good - any idea how it had done that? Was it just the uplift from the boat lifting the AFT? Tying the bow and stern to the front and rear towing points might be a good plan to avoid that happening.

Jamie
1997 white and silver unconverted 4WD WL-T AFT
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by Diplomat » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:18 am

abernethybongo wrote: Tying the bow and stern to the front and rear towing points might be a good plan to avoid that happening.

Jamie
It also gives a visual indication to the driver that all is well on the roof and that the boats haven't slewed off centre or slipped forward. Sit-on-tops are particularly heavy and all that mass wants to carry on travelling forwards when the vehiicle slows or stops suddenly. In the last analysis, it's only the fixings holding the bars to the roof, with a litttle bit of help from end tie downs, that contain this force.

I wouldn't be happy with two heavy sit-on-tops on a standard two bar roof rack. They really need something like an industrial grade ladder rack or the sort of luggage frame system which was popular with scouts etc. before van roofs became too stylised to fit them.

I went for a tin top Bongo specifically because I frequently carry kayaks or radio mast sections, wanted to use my existing gutter fitted bars and didn't want to reach up any higher than necessarry.

Volvo estates made ideal canoe transporters as they had a very long roof line and were low enough to make loading and tying down very easy. You couldn't walk around inside them, though.


Frank
My schoolmates idolised Biggles, I wanted to be Alcock & Brown
They flew, I took up naturism
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Re: Tips for canoeists and kayakers

Post by DILLIGAF » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:37 am

Don't know how the damage was caused, but it looked quite bad, both ends of the AFT had four inch holes in where the rack was fixed. I wouldn't want to have to pay for the repair!
being a philosopher, i have a problem for every solution.
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