Newbie with a wiring puzzle

[G0NQE]

Hello everyone from a quite old but very new Bongonaut.
My wife and I are now proud owners of a Blue and Silver 1997 Bongo friendee 2.5 ltr Diesel with AFT and side conversion + rock n roll bed.
After our first outing when we returned i forget to set the Zig unit switch to the on site position and flattened both batteries.
To make sure this didn't happen again i fitted a PPT 140 VSR, took the fuse from the cranking battery to the Zig unit and all was ok, we've just returned from 3.5 weeks touring from West Yorkshire down the east coast to East Sussex and back and not a flat battery in sight.
Sorry that this is turning into a bit of a novel but i felt it was all relevant. Anyway one of the things that did drive me nuts while we were away was constantly having to get out of a nice comfy back seat to open the drivers door and put the ignition key in on accessories to drop or lift the blinds, so when we returned i did some silver surfing and found the simple mod to bypass the main fuses for the blinds and 12v accessory socket so that the blinds plus the 12v socket could be used with ignition key out.
The mod went ok and i connected the 3 wires from the bypassed fuses to a new fusebox that i had fitted under the bonnet, before i wired the 12v into the fuse box i thought i would try it out with a wire with a crock clip at each end, i connected the wire to the fusebox and then to the leisure battery, straight away there was the sound of a small motor which i thought was strange but it stopped and i tried the blinds which were in the down postion and they all went up, but that's where they stayed, pressing the switches to bring them down again did nothing. I checked the fuses and all were ok so i was a bit puzzled but then i noticed what must have been the sound of the small motor when i first connected up to the leisure battery, the passenger side wing mirror that was in the normal driving position had opened beyond its usual stop and would have been ideal as a shaving mirror!!
I removed the wire from the leisure battery and connected it to the van cranking battery and all was ok, everything worked and the side mirror went back to its proper position.
I'm not bad with vehicle electrics and radio electronics but not an expert, either the Bongo is having a laugh at my expense or my grey matter has started to thicken.
If anyone has any ideas please feel free to put me out of my misery.
Once again sorry for this rant and i'll try and keep future posts short.
Regards to all Colin

[g8dhe]

The wiring diagrams are available on-line here
The blinds are really a quite simple circuit, however the front switches are prone for the open contacts to dust and tarnish and need cleaning if not used.
Its normal to switch over 4 circuits to the LB,
top Left - 10Amp - permenent unswitched power - lights and backups etc.
top right - 15Amp - Ancillery circuits - sockets, radio etc.
both blinds - 15Amp - these are top row 2nd and 3rd from right.

Oh and welcome to the Bongo radio club as well

[G0NQE]

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for the reply, The problem isn't with with how i wired it up to the fuse box below the steering wheel, i took out fuses 6 7 and 8 and made a lead up that plugs into the non live side of the 3 fuses, the other end of the lead goes to a new fuse box i fitted under the bonnet, the problem is that it doesn't work when the new fuse box is connected to the leisure battery, well it does but as i said in my post it does funny things with the passenger side wing mirror etc.
when i connect it to the van battery everything is fine.
It's strange that it will only work properly from the van battery and not from the leisure battery, all that has changed is where the blinds and wing mirrors etc get there 12 volt supply from, could it be the VSR that is causing the problem.
I'm going to temporarily remove the VSR and connect back up to the leisure battery and see what happens.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Regards, Colin

[pixies]

Could there be a poor earth on the leisure battery side?

[G0NQE]

Hi Pixies,
Thanks for your input, the earth on the leisure battery is fine. today i removed the fuse from the leisure battery to the VSR and sure enough everything works fine now when connected to the leisure battery, it looks like the PPT140 VSR is faulty or maybe just a poor circuit design, i can't find a circuit diagram for the VSR type so i'm just guessing.
I wonder if anyone else has had the same problem with a VSR relay?

Regards, Colin.

[cmm303]

Strange! Should not make any difference to the circuits' operation whether the VSR is closed or open so something is amiss. Certainly my blinds and mirrors work the same when the VSR is on or when parked up camping.

[g8dhe]

I would be looking at how the VSR and its connections and fuses have been wired in, the symptoms don't make a lot of sense for a correctly wired system!

....Thought if the relay has a timer in it (some VSR's do) and they have used the LB charging fuse as the fuse to the new fuse panel as well, then that could explain it! Charging fuses shouldn't be used to feed the fuse block, but some installations do, so causing much confusion as to results when the fuse blows!!

The best circuit config is;

[haydn callow]

Just push the blinds up/down with your hand,,,,,,you will not do any harm and won't use any electrics so saving the planet

[G0NQE]

Thanks for all the feedback, I wired the VSR up as per manufacturers instructions which is exactly the same as your diagram Geoff.
I took some voltage readings this afternoon and without a 12 volt feed to the relay I installed under the bonnet, with the ignition off the wire that comes from fuse 8, cigar lighter, mirrors and radio has 8.7 volts on it, the blinds read 0, these readings are with the negative side of my Avo connected to a good chassis ground and the key out of the ignition.
The 8.7 volts on the equipment side of fuse 8 is very strange when I have disconnected it's 12v feed at fuse 8 and no 12v feed to the fuse box under the bonnet.
Regards, Colin

[G0NQE]

Sorry there is a typo in the last post, it should read "and without a 12 volt feed to the fuse box" not the relay

[g8dhe]

That reading of 8.7 volts is not impossible, its the ancillary circuit, which has the Radio power connected to it and several other circuits that all have dual (backup) supply feeds, I'm wondering if your seeing some feed thru from those items which is confusing the readings. I would try the FULL circuit but only connect one fuse at a time and check that items on that circuit work correctly, then add in the fuses until you have an oddity occur, it might help identify the circuit with a problem.

[G0NQE]

Hi Geoff,
I agree there shouldn't be any voltage with no supply connected but there is so as you say its got to be feed through from something else. i did notice that when we were away and parked up with ignition key out i had left a usb charger in the cigar lighter socket and the led in the charger was still glowing, i attached my phone to it and the led went out, unplugged the charger and the led came back on so the voltage that is there could just light the led but was pulled down when a bigger load was attached.
I will try and find out where the voltage is coming from, i'll try the radio first as it is a cheap Bush, and I've no idea who fitted it.
I did connect everything back up again yesterday to the LB, with no changes to the wiring that i had done and everything worked as it should, very strange that when i tried it the first time the passenger door mirror went haywire.

I will plod on with it and let you know if and what i find, trouble is getting at the wiring in the Bongo, my old bones don't bend very well to say the least.

Regards, Colin

[BataanPete]

Colin.

< ... i attached my phone to it and the led went out, unplugged the charger and the led came back on so the voltage that is there could just light the led but was pulled down when a bigger load was attached. I will try and find out where the voltage is coming from, ... >

The low voltage may be coming from the radio as you surmise (as there may be an internal memory battery), but also maybe from a partially discharged capacitor - in the ECU circuit for example?

Regards,

Peter

[G0NQE]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your input, and yes it is the radio. I'll just leave that alone as i think its more than likely the cheapo radio that's been fitted and the remedy will more than likely to be fit a better radio.
The problem i had at the beginning of the post has not reoccurred which is a bit of a puzzle, why i haven't a clue. The mod for the blinds and cigar lighter socket plus radio to be on permanent live from the LB is all done and working fine.
Thank you to all for your input, it was much appreciated.

Regards, Colin.

[cmm303]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your input, and yes it is the radio. I'll just leave that alone as i think its more than likely the cheapo radio that's been fitted and the remedy will more than likely to be fit a better radio.
The problem i had at the beginning of the post has not reoccurred which is a bit of a puzzle, why i haven't a clue. The mod for the blinds and cigar lighter socket plus radio to be on permanent live from the LB is all done and working fine.
Thank you to all for your input, it was much appreciated.

Regards, Colin.

I hope I have read this all correctly. I'm not convinced that replacing the radio would fix this.

Instead move a 4th circuit, either the top right or top left fuse over to the LB, whichever hasn't been done. There could be an assumption in this thread that the usual 4 circuits have been moved over but in the OP only 3 circuits are mentioned. 4 circuits is a tried and tested configuration.

Usually both the radio feeds run off the same battery:
The unswitched feed (marked ISO A4 in the diag below) is fed by the top left fuse and this is shared with the internal lights so is normally moved to the LB.
The switched feed (marked ISO A7) is fed from the top right fuse, shared with ciggy lighter sockets and door mirrors and also normally moved to the LB.

With both circuits running off the LB, the state of the VSR, or isolating it, should now make no difference and never set up a condition where power can cross feed through the radio between the two batteries.