2.0 L petrol idle speed adjustment

[Andrewpridmore]

Update - when i tried to start her this morning she quickly died and now won't restart. Even performing the emergency start on LPG has the same issue - she turns over, tries to fire up, might manage it for a second I don't or two then dies.

Considering there is air, a spark and both fuels are effected exactly the same, i don't understand how there can be any issue. Ateast not one that doesn't involve clutching at straws. She was running fine at high revs and misfiring at low revs last night.

Soon to be doing the rounds of calling garages and my LPG fitter...

[Bongolia]

I would still go for getting to a Bongo guy who can at least swop out with known good components. Is the wire coming out the centre the same material as the ignition leads?
are you saying that it will rev happily in neutral up to 4500 without a misfire?
Does the same thing happen in reverse?
Sounds like it may be cheaper to take out another breakdown policy.
Where in Kent are you?

[Andrewpridmore]

Yes it is the same sort of wire in the centre of the distributor as the other 4 wires.
Talking with my LPG fitter we have likely issues that could cause the symptoms (have also occasionally had brakes going solid when revs play up, which i thought was something else)

1. Vacuum tube leak. Explains bad low rpm, solid brakes and occasional stall on LPG when braking or accelerating from a stop (has always done this since LPG fitted but very rarely & i had assumed i wasn't driving gently enough)
2. Distributor has been put back one tooth out - it's at one end of adjustment and moving it a few degrees more would fix the issue. Seems odd to fit a part and not set it up in the middle of the adjustment range. The last breakdown guy also admitted this was possible if unlikely.
3. Collapsed CAT - possible if the most unlikely of all. Blockage at low RPM that is easily overcome at higher revs. Doesn't seem possible as it is putting it into gear that really kills the revs, she revs freely in N & P though isn't happy below 1500 as still seems to misfire then.
4. ECU is dead/malfunctioning. I've thought of this a few times - the fact that the ECU is responsible for the correct low idle speed and this doesn't have the correct low idle hints at an ECU issue.

Yes will rev easily in neutral to 4500 and above, though up to 1000-1500 she isn't happy at all.

Yes, same thing happens in every gear position, couldn't even reverse it onto the lifting arms of the tow truck yesterday it has so little power. He had to jack it up and reverse the arms under my rear wheels

Will see what he finds today/tomorrow. Breakdown firm have been gracious and said they will do another move if it turns out not to be the LPG as diagnosed. That would take their transport and callout bill close to £750 which for a £45 a year policy (auto aid) is very good value

[Bongolia]

2/3/4 seem unlikely. Although HT is.
Hard brakes is significant Vacum/air leak.
Who has it now LPG guy or County Cars?
It sounds like you have an external coil does you distributor look like the one in this pic.
https://goo.gl/photos/oGsFz7t7vkkngvqi9

[Andrewpridmore]

The hard brakes has maybe happened 10-20 times and always around the time of poor/low revs and or a stall when stopping or moving off, but still a rare occurrence - with a vacuum leak I'd expect the same issue every time?

LPG fitter also said possible leak on one way valve by/in brake servo.
He is an ex Mazda technician so knows Mazda engines and bongos well.

Nope, my distributor doesn't look like the one in the photo, there's a centre cap and wire in there that runs off to the LH side of the vehicle and a box with a bunch of other electrical plugs going into it. It looks like the picture shown here: http://www.campers-scotland.com/mazda-b ... ol-engine/

[Bongolia]

Likely loss of vacuum is due to engine stall although there should be enough vacuum stored in the servo to allow a couple of applications before it is exhausted. Your LPG guy is correct with respect to the one way valve in the servo.
Does your vehicle have an OBD socket like this?
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_pictu ... bdf9978e9e
The igniter pack I refereed to in an earlier post is on the side of that coil pack held by two screws.
A very rough way to check leakage at that coil pack would be to use a hand held garden spray bottle and lightly mist the coil pack with water it dont soak it. Does that induce a misfire?

[Andrewpridmore]

Yes there is an obd socket, i did plug in a reader and got some codes about air flow too high/low and an air sensor issue but i cleared them and they have not reappeared so i assume they were old codes left in the system.

Another thing he was going to try was removing the lambda sensor to see if it responded differently.

He's been engaged all day (or has left the phone off the hook so he can work in peace ) so maybe i will find out tomorrow...

[Bongolia]

You have the later engine set up so your vehicle should have air idle screw here shown at the top of the throttle body.
Although you will need to switch ecu out to adjust https://goo.gl/photos/4KkA8yckaf5Y5Uy7A
Any news?

[Andrewpridmore]

I did already find that screw and it was very loose, almost rattling about so i did it up tight. Is that a bad thing? at least i didn't take out the ECU before touching it...

My LPG fitter says he has refitted the distributor twice and it keeps going out as if either some pin on/to do with the distributor has broken or else a gear on/to do with the crankshaft/timing belt is damaged - he says the timing cannot seem to be consistently held in the same place and keeps wandering off. It is definitely a "comes and goes" type issue - one minute she's just a bit slow, then after a stop she won't start, 15 minutes later she will start, later on she'll move under power again but barely, then an hour later she moves with much more power.

Will see what else he finds tomorrow...

[Bongolia]

He has to switch the ecu control out or it will keep pulling it back. Did county connect up a scan tool when fitting the replacement dissy?
I dont know how you would switch ECU out on your set up but suspect its through the scan tool.
On the earlier type you short pins gnd and ten.
Dunno if someone here can cross that over to the newer obd socket.
It may be worth your guy having a look in the glove box area for the older type diag socket as I believe some new OBD sockets were piggybacked off of that.
Tightening the air screw will cause it to stall and idle roughly due to lack of air. The ecu will have a struggle trying to maintain things as it has basically only the ignition and injector duration left to control once the BAC valve is at temperature.
You need to let him know that screw is in tight.Keep us posted.
Edit. A rough setting for that screw would be from tight out 1.50 -2.50 turns ECU switched out.
Edit2. Actually there would be control of air supply via the BAC valve but idle would be affected to a certain extent if it were in the idle circuit mode.

[rita]

Andrewpridmore , it would might be worthwhile removing the distributor and checking the drive gear, also making sure that the distributor gear is firmly pinned to the drive shaft.

Good Luck.

[Andrewpridmore]

We found the problem - the Woodruff key that holds the gear on the crankshaft has sheared, hence the timing is all over the place.

Has caused a bit of other damage but should all be salvageable with a new key and some repair work. He did say he had seen this on a few diesel bongos but never a petrol one before.

I've only had the bongo for 5 months - do I have any comeback on the dealer that sold me the vehicle? I always understood the first 6 months was all their liability?

[rita]

We found the problem - the Woodruff key that holds the gear on the crankshaft has sheared, hence the timing is all over the place.

Has caused a bit of other damage but should all be salvageable with a new key and some repair work. He did say he had seen this on a few diesel bongos but never a petrol one before.

I've only had the bongo for 5 months - do I have any comeback on the dealer that sold me the vehicle? I always understood the first 6 months was all their liability?

Yes I have had this problem over the years with various vehicles (customers) hence ...



"Andrewpridmore , it would might be worthwhile removing the distributor and checking the drive gear, also making sure that the distributor gear is firmly pinned to the drive shaft."

Re your warranty you need to check your paper work .

Good luck

[Andrewpridmore]

Photos of the offending bit. He reckons that the rust seen indicates that there had been some sort of problem in that area for a while...

https://goo.gl/photos/9ttVCMwoH5AgwChK8

Out of interest if I did want to get a replacement gear or Woodruff key, are there any sources for them other than to rob them from an existing engine? And would all engines be different or could I rob it from a V6 or diesel too??

Thanks

[mikeonb4c]

We found the problem - the Woodruff key that holds the gear on the crankshaft has sheared, hence the timing is all over the place.

Has caused a bit of other damage but should all be salvageable with a new key and some repair work. He did say he had seen this on a few diesel bongos but never a petrol one before.

I've only had the bongo for 5 months - do I have any comeback on the dealer that sold me the vehicle? I always understood the first 6 months was all their liability?

Excellent news. Out of interest, how does it affect the diesel also - does it affect valve or injector or pump timing? I'd thought a lot of dealer warranties were 3 months only (most hardly worth the paper they're written on but...). Dealers that do Bongo mechanics are often better at doing their own 'honour' warranty but even then they would probably only apply it if they were doing the work themselves. Always worth asking though, as this looks to be a longstanding problem. Good luck and keep us posted.