Cooling system service

[Merlot man]

Hello all
I'm on a run in relation to getting work done on the bus and getting the advice from this great site !
The next big project on the bus is the full cooling system service . I intend to replace as much of the system as possible , hoses , clips , pump , main rad , front heater matrix , thermostat etc the bus is a '95 TD
Sourcing most parts will be from the club shop and / or mazdabongo.com
Question / advice
. In relation to clips , I have a choose between Mazda clips or I've heard good things about Norma constant tension clamps , what do people think of these and where can I source them , hadn' callow has them but i fell only for his inline thermo switches , my mechanic friend has little faith in the Mazda items ........ Your views and good supply sources ?
. Bleeding , I've watched the YouTube videos but how would vacuum filling the system work ? Also as the engine head is lower than the header tank and rad would it be of benifit to raise the front and lower the rear to get tank and rad higher ?
. Can people see any benefit in insulating the thermostat housing using pipe lagging to help the stat open easier / sooner ?

If any/ all of what I'm saying is nonsense please tell me , I won't mind ....it won't be the first time I'm interested in good advice always .
Thank you all in advance for the good advice I feel I'm about to get
Brian

[g8dhe]

I've no great experience on the clips but the main thing is that the clips should allow for expansion of the pipes diameter caused by the temperature increase, so either the constant pressure types or the Mazda style ones (they have worked on most vans for 20+ years ) seem best, cheap hose Jubilee style have the problem that they look and feel great, but they don't expand and thus cause the hoses to indent and compress under temperature which then when they cool down leak..... lots of people who used the silicone replacement pipes had problems with these.

The thermostat is designed to be in free air, the capsule with the wax is in the direct line of the hot coolant, if you insulate the outside then heat won't be lost and the stat will remain open longer than it should! Remember the stat is continuously adjusting itself to regulate the temperature, insulate it and it can't cool down as easily.

Raising the front of the vehicle can assist with removing air from the system as its air trapped in the head of the diesel that seems to cause the most problems, some suggest letting out any trapped air from the gauge sensor at the front can help but adds extra complexity to the bleed process and risks burns and hot coolant spraying around as well .......
If you haven't already found the threads Steve, widdowson2008, did a brilliant job of documenting the entire system including cutting up an old diesel engine to find out just where the air gets trapped see http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... =3&t=35902 and http://igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/view ... =3&t=39193 and several other indepth threads !

[teenmal]

I don't have a problem with "Real Jubilee clips" considering the Jubilee Company has been making this product for 95 years I think they might have proved themselves by now.I agree with Geoff re the mazda clips , also a lot of problems re silicone hoses is not the clips but ill fitting hoses. Before you replace all the bits and pieces it is advisable to give the system a Good flush/clean to remove any rust/scale that may later contaminate the new parts.
Also when you have the main radiator out it would be advisable to give the AC condenser/rad a good blast to remove any obstructions/rubbish.
You may also consider replacing the radiator/header tank caps.

[mikeonb4c]

Be careful (i seem to recall someone saying) where hoses might be connecting to plastic stubs (rear heater matrix for example maybe but perhaps a techie can advise?) as these may have become brittle with age and liable to break if treated roughly. I imagine this could apply also to care in tightening jubilee clips, if you decide to use them.

[teenmal]

Yep he is going to change the" front heater matrix "might as well change the rear one also, killing two birds with the same stone.

[mikeonb4c]

Yep he is going to change the" front heater matrix "might as well change the rear one also, killing two birds with the same stone.

If an old Bongo is overall in sound condition and you want to keep it and do big adventures, i think a planned full coolant system overhaul should be seen as a wise investment if you can afford it. At 20+ years old things must be getting fragile and it would spoil my day to have a plastic stub giving out and coolant everywhere but where it should be when i'm away touring with no quality Bongo mechanic nearby.

[Bongolia]

I don't have a problem with "Real Jubilee clips" considering the Jubilee Company has been making this product for 95 years I think they might have proved themselves by now.I agree with Geoff re the mazda clips , also a lot of problems re silicone hoses is not the clips but ill fitting hoses. Before you replace all the bits and pieces it is advisable to give the system a Good flush/clean to remove any rust/scale that may later contaminate the new parts.
Also when you have the main radiator out it would be advisable to give the AC condenser/rad a good blast to remove any obstructions/rubbish.
You may also consider replacing the radiator/header tank caps.

Personally I would try to keep as many of the original spring clips as possible. Jubilee clips are OK though.
The main cause of problems with any worm drive clip is they tend to get over tightened and on plastic spigots this forces the spigot into itself putting a kink in it, metal pipes wont do this.
If you think of the pressure of a sprung clip then that is as much as you need for a worm clip.

When I am removing old hoses from their spigots I use a pair of water pump pliers gripping the hose around the spigot lightly and rotating it back and forth carefully a couple of times and you will be able to remove them easily.

As Teenmal says clean out the condenser core too.It covers an awful lot of the cooling rad.
Take it easy as the "fins" can be quite badly corroded especially if the vans been washed with a caustic solution like the Truck Wash that you see used at the local Hand Car washes this stuff rots the thin alloy quickly.
Washing up liquid and a car washing brush is favourite for this then blow through the fins gently with an airline, dont even think of pressure washing it.

[Merlot man]

Thanks for all the responses gents
Those links are a great read Geoff really informative .
When I was talking about insulating the thermostat housing I meant only while I was doing the bleeding, to aid in it opening up allowing the coolant into the rad , I'd be removing it after that ! I'm willing to admit that it could be a silly idea

It looks like the Mazda Spring clips are the favoured choice so I'll more than likely go with these , bongolia , I assume you mean using new Mazda clips not reusing the old items ? Does anyone have an idea of the number AND various sizes required for the full system ?(Ian in the bongo shop might be able to help me here )

The only reason I didn't mention the rear matrix teenmal and Mike is that I'm considering blanking if off , saves a bit of work and reduces some of the potential for leaks , if I keep if it will be changed . And Mike we plan to use this bus a lot on the continent so this is seen as an investment in the bus and in the traveling / holidays

I've been doing some research in the members area and found a factsheet on coolant bleeding , It's very good indeed , one of the techniques explained was the vacuum bleed / fill system and that looks like a great idea to me as it appears to automatically remove all the air from the system and check for leaks as well , im hoping to replace all / most of the coolant components so this would be a great way to check for leaks and suck all the nasty head warping air out . I don't mind investing in one as I plan to do a number of regular coolant changes to this bus and I'll use it on the mx5's .............and I like new toys
What are people's opinions on this technique and any special advice for using it on a system with so many parts , rubber hoses etc , like our favourite bus
Thank you all again for your quick and informed replies
Keep them coming
Brian

[Bongolia]

You can reuse the old clips as long as they are still springy and not really badly corroded

[Ian]

It looks like the Mazda Spring clips are the favoured choice so I'll more than likely go with these , bongolia , I assume you mean using new Mazda clips not reusing the old items ? Does anyone have an idea of the number AND various sizes required for the full system ?(Ian in the bongo shop might be able to help me here )Brian

Bongolia is correct. You can re-use the old clips unless they are rusted or will not budge. But if you want to change the lot, for the front coolant system you need

2 x Clips 99283-2500P
3 x Clips 99286-1400P
8 x Large Clips 9WNCB-3700B
2 x Small Clips 99286-2200P

For the rear heater hoses, you need the following

5 x Small Clips 99283-2200P
9 x Small Clips 99286-2200P

99283-2200P is no longer available, but 99286-2200P will fit just as well, so you need 14 x Small Clips 99286-2200P.

These clips can be pricey if ordered from Mazda, or individually from the Bongo Shop or mazdabongo.com, so identify what you need and I'm sure we can do you a deal.

[Merlot man]

Good morning all
Thanks for the replies bongolia and Ian
To be fair the most of the clips don't look in too bad a condition , I wont really know until I remove them though !
Ian your correct that they do seem expensive especially compared to the hoses , they are a bargain in comparison
Ian ,If I were to replace them all what kind of money are we talking about ? ( should I be sitting down )
Ive got no views on the vac/fill process so any advice /experience would be greatly appreciated
Thanks again for all the great advice
Brian

[Ian]

Members receive a 12.5% discount on the following prices:

Complete set of coolant hoses £195.00
Complete set of rear heater hoses £164.00
Clips at £4.25 each (any combination)

Prices include VAT & UK delivery.

[mikeonb4c]

Good morning all
Thanks for the replies bongolia and Ian
To be fair the most of the clips don't look in too bad a condition , I wont really know until I remove them though !
Ian your correct that they do seem expensive especially compared to the hoses , they are a bargain in comparison
Ian ,If I were to replace them all what kind of money are we talking about ? ( should I be sitting down )
Ive got no views on the vac/fill process so any advice /experience would be greatly appreciated
Thanks again for all the great advice
Brian

Maybe you could do a sale or return deal. What you really want is to know that as the job progresses, the mechanic can proceed without interruption by being able to replace old with new where the condition of the old one concerns them. So having a full set to hand could be invaluable but hopefully most won't need renewing and most of the clips can be returned. This could even be a good marketing opportunity for Bongo Fury if it encourages more sales by removing fear over cost of replacing clips.

[rita]

Probably best to renew all the hoses , pipes , and clips , then relax for the next 20 YEARS. Its usually the part you don't renew that lets you down.

If you are thinking of Sale or Return most decent motor factors will honour this providing the parts have not been used, and returned in original unopened packaging if appropriate.

Good Luck.

[Ian]

If you are thinking of Sale or Return most decent motor factors will honour this providing the parts have not been used, and returned in original unopened packaging if appropriate.

Yes, we can do this for you.