Auto folding mirrors on alarm/locking need a bit of help!!

[jaylee]

g8dhe you out there...? I've nearly flippin cracked it!!!

OK no problem as such... I've been trying to refine my closing mirrors on the locking..
This sounds crazy, but if i short the radio/cig lighter/mirror loom with the ignition OFF it works...!! (NO LB.)
I need to know how to wire a relay so it shorts the cig loom while the ignitions off, & stop this happening when the ignitions on...?

I can take the trigger feed from the ignition, i already have a wire that services the alarm,window closure & mirror closure modules...

Another thought was to take the temporary power supply from the mirror closing module to trigger a relay & cause the same shorting effect for this to work..? (The unit is inoperative with the ignition on anyway & the mirrors work normally..) Then when i start the van the mirrors fold out..

I just need to know what to do with the relay to achieve the above...??

Cheers.

[g8dhe]

What do you mean by

This sounds crazy, but if i short the radio/cig lighter/mirror loom with the ignition OFF it works...!! (NO LB.)
I need to know how to wire a relay so it shorts the cig loom while the ignitions off, & stop this happening when the ignitions on...?

I hope you don't mean short to earth/chassis ? Because that is a risk to far! Explain what is happening or isn't happening ?

[stilldesperate]

pm sent

[jaylee]

What do you mean by

This sounds crazy, but if i short the radio/cig lighter/mirror loom with the ignition OFF it works...!! (NO LB.)
I need to know how to wire a relay so it shorts the cig loom while the ignitions off, & stop this happening when the ignitions on...?

I hope you don't mean short to earth/chassis ? Because that is a risk to far! Explain what is happening or isn't happening ?

OK here's the whack part... I fitted this closure module to the mirrors ages ago.. They work! But, like this... Ignition OFF, Mirrors out. Lock they Don't close, flick the mirror switch down & relock they do.!
If i don't flick the mirror switch down & the radio is left on (NOT an Aldi) some sort of electrical back flush turns the radio on for a short duration. (Caused by the closure mod) It don't happen if the switch is down. The mirrors just close!

You with me? There's more... I have an extra cig lighter spur off the lighter loom hidden under the dash for the Sat Nav.. If the Sat Nav's plugged in even if the the mirror switch is in the open position, they close on locking as they should.

With the ignition ON all works as it should...

Now the cig lighter spur is situated under the steering wheel behind the square two screw removable panel below the cowl out of sight. I can disconnect this if i need to...
As a crazy experiment this afternoon i SHORTED the LIVE & EARTH TOGETHER!! on the cable of this unit. (after some tests with a meter.) Using a spare piece of wire But with the ignition OFF. & the mirrors closed on locking the remote with the switch in open & closed positions.
Of course i don't want a short when the ignition is on....

So i was thinking a switchable relay.? I did give up on the head scratching months ago, but then i had this idea...

What do you think?

As an aside; i fitted window closure mods to the windows they work great, but the mirror switch is a different animal..

[g8dhe]

What do I think about shorting the 12 volt wiring loom to earth well ........ If I wanted to get rid of you in a possible car fire then I would say yes .... But I'm really not that cruel!
No its not really a sensible idea I know its fused, but I have seen fuses "FAIL" short circuit when they got hot enough to sag without blowing, resulting in a much higher current flowing then expected - the results are NOT NICE also its not unknown for fuse's to be replaced with the wrong size fuse, and shorts to occur behind fuse connectors. Relay contacts will not infrequently weld themselves closed, in all these cases you can expect nasty things to happen!

I guess what's actually happening here is that when you shorted the loom out you caused this closure module to reset and that causes the mirrors to operate. Also the Bongo Mirror switch doesn't operate on a pulse basis it permanently connects +12 volts and earth to the motors in one direction or the other (whilst the ignition is ON, and even when OFF you have all the other Bongo wiring connected to these leads - a limit switch in the motor housing causes the motor to stop - and when the voltage is reversed the motor runs in the other direction (using diodes). This means that unless your closure module disconnects BOTH wires to the mirror motors and takes over control from the normal switch then its likely to be the cause of the problems you have. In other vehicles we've had in the past the mirrors have worked on a pulse basis using latching circuits (either relay or logic) and you don't have the same problems in connecting remote controls. Have you any details of the module your using? Can you scan or photograph any diagrams or information about the module or how its connected ?

Edit - Examples of melted fuses which haven't blown Google search

[Grahame at work]

Hi Jaylee,

I absolutely agree with g8dhe - you have something not quite right with the wiring of the various bits & bobs
To add a 'FIX' / 'work-around' to over come the problem is asking for big trouble

DON'T DO IT

You need to go over the connections / links for the additions you have put in and see how they relate to the original schematics - a little bit of study should show you where the "incompatibility" is.

If can do as g8dhe asks - and provide even simple schematics of the additional modules then I'm sure the collective mind of Bongo Fury can find the answer.

good luck

Grahame

[waycar8]

Jaylee, I mentioned this a while ago as I too wanting the mirrors to fold in when locking the alarm and opening out when re opening.

Well I didnt have a clue but the basis was it couldnt be done with the mirrors, Mike Dreamwarrioruk it a sparky, so he got a mate (some other leccy type engineer) to make some kind of relay (possibly a switching realy as this sounds familiar) which also didnt work as we wanted it to, a couple more attempts later, it got shelved

but if you do find a way please divulge

[jaylee]

Panic ye not guys & thanks for the advice... I did a little more "Safe mode" testing...

G8dhe, Grahame at work, you are right!! I gave it some thought it's way to damn risky to even contemplate... Don't worry i didn't try it...

The unit i am using is a Gemini 2244, i don't own a scanner & my search is fruitless for an on-line diagram.. Though i do still have the instructions! I fitted the grey & green wires from the module to the green with white stripe to interrupt the mirror close direction.. I know that works because when the switch is down & the van locks it closes em! (See my previous posts.)
I also have two negative feed wires in the loom of the module.. (according to the manual they don't get used?) But one of them becomes grounded when the unit is activated for the same time the mirrors work! But not when the ignition is on & not when the mirrors have finished closing!

I have come to the conclusion the mirror switch design is the fly in the ointment, it's not the same as the electric window set up, the mirror wiring is more like (in principle.) the factory manual CL???

Jaylee, I mentioned this a while ago as I too wanting the mirrors to fold in when locking the alarm and opening out when re opening.

Well I didnt have a clue but the basis was it couldnt be done with the mirrors, Mike Dreamwarrioruk it a sparky, so he got a mate (some other leccy type engineer) to make some kind of relay (possibly a switching realy as this sounds familiar) which also didnt work as we wanted it to, a couple more attempts later, it got shelved

but if you do find a way please divulge

Waycar, my plan is to have em close on locking & open when the ignition is on.. Leaving the switch on in open should & does do this, so far on the test. they only shut with my sat nav plugged in!
Don't worry! I still have a plan....

[waycar8]

Ah, right get ya going down a slightly different route













Especially with the sat nav working your mirrors

[jaylee]

Ah, right get ya going down a slightly different route













Especially with the sat nav working your mirrors

I plan to get that to drive for me...!

I love a challenge....

In the meantime, check this out! NO it's not my MX5... http://www.planetmx5.com/forum/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

[g8dhe]

OK that is enough to see why it closes the mirrors;

I fitted the grey & green wires from the module to the green with white stripe to interrupt the mirror close direction.. I know that works because when the switch is down & the van locks it closes em!

As it only intercepts ONE of the two wires it can only actually drive the mirrors in one direction i.e. in this case to close them.


I am guessing that it picks up power from a permanent +12 volt connection, and that when you short out the other supply you are causing it to reset, this means that the unit drops out of play and reverts to allowing the normal manual control switch to open them as it normally would - but as I say that's a bit of a guess without an actual circuit diagram.

To actually open the mirrors the remote control circuit will have to intercept both the Green/White and the Green/Black, so that it can reverse the power to the motors, before the ignition is turned ON.

[waycar8]

Ah, right get ya going down a slightly different route













Especially with the sat nav working your mirrors

I plan to get that to drive for me...!

I love a challenge....

In the meantime, check this out! NO it's not my MX5... http://www.planetmx5.com/forum/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

AHHH not that old mod , sounds as thoe it could be a bit dangerous

[cheffy34]

g8dhe you out there...? I've nearly flippin cracked it!!!

OK no problem as such... I've been trying to refine my closing mirrors on the locking..
This sounds crazy, but if i short the radio/cig lighter/mirror loom with the ignition OFF it works...!! (NO LB.)
I need to know how to wire a relay so it shorts the cig loom while the ignitions off, & stop this happening when the ignitions on...?

I can take the trigger feed from the ignition, i already have a wire that services the alarm,window closure & mirror closure modules...

Another thought was to take the temporary power supply from the mirror closing module to trigger a relay & cause the same shorting effect for this to work..? (The unit is inoperative with the ignition on anyway & the mirrors work normally..) Then when i start the van the mirrors fold out..

I just need to know what to do with the relay to achieve the above...??

Cheers.

Crack on Jay then let me know what to do


CHOP CHOP

[jaylee]

If the rain holds off tomorrow, i may have a result!
Hope you replaced yer fried switch, i may have good news for yah...

[cheffy34]

If the rain holds off tomorrow, i may have a result!
Hope you replaced yer fried switch, i may have good news for yah...

I'm waiting fella will i need a fire extiguisher with me when i do it gotta go to ebay for a couple of closures


chow bella


Dar